OhOh, future of CL?

[jaapv]

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19 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

2. a particular attitude towards or way of regarding something; a point of view.
"most guidebook history is written from the editor's perspective"

So how are you going to record the mental state of perspective using a lens?

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[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

So how are you going to record the mental state of perspective using a lens?

I don't know where 'mental state' came from , but you can demonstrate 'a particular attitude towards or way of regarding something' by your choice of FL and what else is shown in the frame: a shot with a long FL of just one person is one perspective; shots with wider FLs of that person and their family on either side, or the tools of their trade, or the place they are in, all give a different perspective - following the second usage of 'perspective'.

[ECohen]

I'm getting confused. Could some one recap this lens discussion please ?   "mental state of perspective" ?

You choose a focal length the by the feeling in the photo that you want to convey and you move your lens to subject distance and compose with that focal length lens .

Just talking about lenses Your tools are  wide, normal and telephoto....camera to subject distance and camera angle.

Am I off topic?

[jaapv]

Without moving your relative position? I don't think so. You are talking about the angle of view... Perspective in art has only one meaning ; Cambridge English Dictionary:

 

 

 

 

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[jaapv]

The other perspective is Perspective (thought):

 

 

 

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[LocalHero1953]

My post #617 was to point out that, in common speech, 'perspective' does not always have the same meaning as in optics. The discussions about 'perspective' vs 'angle of view' are entirely correct - in optics.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[lct]

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Interesting to read what our colleague @Lindolfi was writing on cambridgeincolour.com here: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread266.htm

[jaapv]

I haven't seen Lindolfi here for quite a while. A pity, his contributions were always quite valuable.

[Le Chef]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

A zoom lens does not change the perspective if you don't move...

I guess you never read my follow up comment then…

[RM8]

23 hours ago, robgo2 said:

To be more precise, perspective is determined by the distance between the camera and the subject.

In the metric system not in feet, I get it 🤓

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My post #617 was to point out that, in common speech, 'perspective' does not always have the same meaning as in optics. The discussions about 'perspective' vs 'angle of view' are entirely correct - in optics.  

Not really, Paul.  I appreciate that common usage is relevant, but words do have precise meaning.  To say that perspective changes in any photographic context with change in focal length is just wrong, if the location of the camera does not change.

[jaapv]

Actually, it did escape my notice.  

 

2 hours ago, Le Chef said:

I guess you never read my follow up comment then…

 

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, IkarusJohn said:

Not really, Paul.  I appreciate that common usage is relevant, but words do have precise meaning.  To say that perspective changes in any photographic context with change in focal length is just wrong, if the location of the camera does not change.

My original post was only the £1 argument. I see you've paid for the £8 argument. So....

You are writing as a person thinking about* optics, geometry and the technical aspects of getting a 3D scene onto a 2D plane.
The photographer, as someone who wishes to say something about the subject of his photograph, may well consider different angles of view from the same shooting position to offer a different perspective on the subject: a tight angle shot of a person might express something of what the photographer thinks about their character or clothes; a wider angle shot, showing the street scene, might express something of what the photographer thinks about the social context (e.g. as in Jaap's quote above, he might be photographing "from a Marxist perspective").

 

*I could have written "Your perspective is that of a person thinking about" - but that might have muddied the waters.

 

[IkarusJohn]

19 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My original post was only the £1 argument. I see you've paid for the £8 argument. So....

You are writing as a person thinking about* optics, geometry and the technical aspects of getting a 3D scene onto a 2D plane.
The photographer, as someone who wishes to say something about the subject of his photograph, may well consider different angles of view from the same shooting position to offer a different perspective on the subject: a tight angle shot of a person might express something of what the photographer thinks about their character or clothes; a wider angle shot, showing the street scene, might express something of what the photographer thinks about the social context (e.g. as in Jaap's quote above, he might be photographing "from a Marxist perspective").

 

*I could have written "Your perspective is that of a person thinking about" - but that might have muddied the waters.

 

You are correct - in my original post I flippantly said move your feet, where I should have said move your camera, but then it wouldn’t have had the same effect …

But, as to tight or wide, from the same position, while that may be some usage, it is imprecise.  To say someone has a philosophical perspective goes hand in hand with “point of view” - for example, from my perspective, the UK’s response to covid has been catastrophic; you might say, well that’s your point of view.  That’s idiom, which can be elastic; discussing focal length such usage is just misleading …

We do use language to communicate precise and sometimes detailed issues.  We might as well mix up depth of field with depth of focus (don’t tell Olaf).

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said:

You are correct - in my original post I flippantly said move your feet, where I should have said move your camera, but then it wouldn’t have had the same effect …

But, as to tight or wide, from the same position, while that may be some usage, it is imprecise.  To say someone has a philosophical perspective goes hand in hand with “point of view” - for example, from my perspective, the UK’s response to covid has been catastrophic; you might say, well that’s your point of view.  That’s idiom, which can be elastic; discussing focal length such usage is just misleading …

We do use language to communicate precise and sometimes detailed issues.  We might as well mix up depth of field with depth of focus (don’t tell Olaf).

I'm not sure we really have much to argue about here. I agree totally with the use of 'perspective' in the context it is used in this thread; precisely used in this way it has a meaning which conveys useful information. I suspect some of the misunderstanding of the subject arises from carry-over of the more imprecise usage. I also agree that the precise meaning of words is important, though I think many arguments arise because there isn't always an agreed precise meaning (just a small circle of confusion?). 

The difference of usage is actually relevant to me, as editor of a minor RPS journal 'Contemporary Photography'. I am always on the look-out for photography which says something about its subject matter, rather than just makes pretty pictures. The photographer's outlook, context, state of mind, opinion, attitude - their perspective on their subject - are important to me.

[IkarusJohn]

Argue?

[lct]

Calling spade a spade should suffice. Is that an argument?

[LocalHero1953]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

Calling spade a spade should suffice. Is that an argument?

No it isn't.

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[lct]

Self explanatory to me.

[ECohen]

As to whether this is an argument or not? It’s quite entertaining. What a pleasant thoughtful bunch of fellows you are😀 I do enjoy this group.