Daedalus2000 Posted December 5, 2021 Share #621 Posted December 5, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 minutes ago, SrMi said: Apart from CL, my favorite APS-C cameras are Pentax K3-III (great camera, small primes), X100V (OVF), and GR III (small size). I have never tried the K3-III and with respect to the X100V, yes it is a great camera, but somehow I prefer the output I get from Leica cameras. I never really liked the output from the Fuji cameras that much, but I cannot really explain why. Maybe the sensor architecture, maybe the colors, not sure. For me, I agree the ideal would be an updated CL. I do not think it would happen though... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 5, 2021 Posted December 5, 2021 Hi Daedalus2000, Take a look here OhOh, future of CL?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted December 6, 2021 Share #622 Posted December 6, 2021 On 12/5/2021 at 10:16 AM, Le Chef said: I guess you’ve never used a zoom lens then. A zoom lens does not change the perspective if you don't move... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 6, 2021 Share #623 Posted December 6, 2021 19 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: 2. a particular attitude towards or way of regarding something; a point of view. "most guidebook history is written from the editor's perspective" So how are you going to record the mental state of perspective using a lens? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 6, 2021 Share #624 Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, jaapv said: So how are you going to record the mental state of perspective using a lens? I don't know where 'mental state' came from , but you can demonstrate 'a particular attitude towards or way of regarding something' by your choice of FL and what else is shown in the frame: a shot with a long FL of just one person is one perspective; shots with wider FLs of that person and their family on either side, or the tools of their trade, or the place they are in, all give a different perspective - following the second usage of 'perspective'. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted December 6, 2021 Share #625 Posted December 6, 2021 I'm getting confused. Could some one recap this lens discussion please ? "mental state of perspective" ? You choose a focal length the by the feeling in the photo that you want to convey and you move your lens to subject distance and compose with that focal length lens . Just talking about lenses Your tools are wide, normal and telephoto....camera to subject distance and camera angle. Am I off topic? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 6, 2021 Share #626 Posted December 6, 2021 Without moving your relative position? I don't think so. You are talking about the angle of view... Perspective in art has only one meaning ; Cambridge English Dictionary: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326136-ohoh-future-of-cl/?do=findComment&comment=4327128'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 6, 2021 Share #627 Posted December 6, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) The other perspective is Perspective (thought): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326136-ohoh-future-of-cl/?do=findComment&comment=4327129'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 6, 2021 Share #628 Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) My post #617 was to point out that, in common speech, 'perspective' does not always have the same meaning as in optics. The discussions about 'perspective' vs 'angle of view' are entirely correct - in optics. Edited December 6, 2021 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 6, 2021 Share #629 Posted December 6, 2021 Interesting to read what our colleague @Lindolfi was writing on cambridgeincolour.com here: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread266.htm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 6, 2021 Share #630 Posted December 6, 2021 I haven't seen Lindolfi here for quite a while. A pity, his contributions were always quite valuable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted December 6, 2021 Share #631 Posted December 6, 2021 3 hours ago, jaapv said: A zoom lens does not change the perspective if you don't move... I guess you never read my follow up comment then… Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RM8 Posted December 6, 2021 Share #632 Posted December 6, 2021 23 hours ago, robgo2 said: To be more precise, perspective is determined by the distance between the camera and the subject. In the metric system not in feet, I get it 🤓 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 6, 2021 Share #633 Posted December 6, 2021 4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: My post #617 was to point out that, in common speech, 'perspective' does not always have the same meaning as in optics. The discussions about 'perspective' vs 'angle of view' are entirely correct - in optics. Not really, Paul. I appreciate that common usage is relevant, but words do have precise meaning. To say that perspective changes in any photographic context with change in focal length is just wrong, if the location of the camera does not change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 6, 2021 Share #634 Posted December 6, 2021 Actually, it did escape my notice. 2 hours ago, Le Chef said: I guess you never read my follow up comment then… Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 6, 2021 Share #635 Posted December 6, 2021 Just now, IkarusJohn said: Not really, Paul. I appreciate that common usage is relevant, but words do have precise meaning. To say that perspective changes in any photographic context with change in focal length is just wrong, if the location of the camera does not change. My original post was only the £1 argument. I see you've paid for the £8 argument. So.... You are writing as a person thinking about* optics, geometry and the technical aspects of getting a 3D scene onto a 2D plane. The photographer, as someone who wishes to say something about the subject of his photograph, may well consider different angles of view from the same shooting position to offer a different perspective on the subject: a tight angle shot of a person might express something of what the photographer thinks about their character or clothes; a wider angle shot, showing the street scene, might express something of what the photographer thinks about the social context (e.g. as in Jaap's quote above, he might be photographing "from a Marxist perspective"). *I could have written "Your perspective is that of a person thinking about" - but that might have muddied the waters. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 6, 2021 Share #636 Posted December 6, 2021 19 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: My original post was only the £1 argument. I see you've paid for the £8 argument. So.... You are writing as a person thinking about* optics, geometry and the technical aspects of getting a 3D scene onto a 2D plane. The photographer, as someone who wishes to say something about the subject of his photograph, may well consider different angles of view from the same shooting position to offer a different perspective on the subject: a tight angle shot of a person might express something of what the photographer thinks about their character or clothes; a wider angle shot, showing the street scene, might express something of what the photographer thinks about the social context (e.g. as in Jaap's quote above, he might be photographing "from a Marxist perspective"). *I could have written "Your perspective is that of a person thinking about" - but that might have muddied the waters. You are correct - in my original post I flippantly said move your feet, where I should have said move your camera, but then it wouldn’t have had the same effect … But, as to tight or wide, from the same position, while that may be some usage, it is imprecise. To say someone has a philosophical perspective goes hand in hand with “point of view” - for example, from my perspective, the UK’s response to covid has been catastrophic; you might say, well that’s your point of view. That’s idiom, which can be elastic; discussing focal length such usage is just misleading … We do use language to communicate precise and sometimes detailed issues. We might as well mix up depth of field with depth of focus (don’t tell Olaf). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 6, 2021 Share #637 Posted December 6, 2021 1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said: You are correct - in my original post I flippantly said move your feet, where I should have said move your camera, but then it wouldn’t have had the same effect … But, as to tight or wide, from the same position, while that may be some usage, it is imprecise. To say someone has a philosophical perspective goes hand in hand with “point of view” - for example, from my perspective, the UK’s response to covid has been catastrophic; you might say, well that’s your point of view. That’s idiom, which can be elastic; discussing focal length such usage is just misleading … We do use language to communicate precise and sometimes detailed issues. We might as well mix up depth of field with depth of focus (don’t tell Olaf). I'm not sure we really have much to argue about here. I agree totally with the use of 'perspective' in the context it is used in this thread; precisely used in this way it has a meaning which conveys useful information. I suspect some of the misunderstanding of the subject arises from carry-over of the more imprecise usage. I also agree that the precise meaning of words is important, though I think many arguments arise because there isn't always an agreed precise meaning (just a small circle of confusion?). The difference of usage is actually relevant to me, as editor of a minor RPS journal 'Contemporary Photography'. I am always on the look-out for photography which says something about its subject matter, rather than just makes pretty pictures. The photographer's outlook, context, state of mind, opinion, attitude - their perspective on their subject - are important to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 6, 2021 Share #638 Posted December 6, 2021 Argue? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 6, 2021 Share #639 Posted December 6, 2021 Calling spade a spade should suffice. Is that an argument? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 6, 2021 Share #640 Posted December 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, lct said: Calling spade a spade should suffice. Is that an argument? No it isn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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