I ordered the m10-r black paint

[IkarusJohn]

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2 minutes ago, Tessar. said:

There are advantages further down the line when someone takes sandpaper to a new camera.  Three years ago I bought this camera that had been owned by photographer Sara M Lee for about a thousand pounds below the price of a mint M240-P.   I sold it six months later for a small profit, or at least the increase offset the commission fee, making it cost neutral. 

Interestingly my normal dealer for commission sales didn't want to touch it and said it had been abused (which it hadn't), but another well known commission seller did accept it without question.

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So, what are the advantages?

[Tessar.]

10 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

So, what are the advantages?

The advantage for me was the price, the original owner having seriously reduced its value.  I found some more pics of it and it was worse than I remembered.  It did sell pretty quickly when I sold it on.

The story behind it was that it had been dropped and landed on the lens which had damaged the mount and 6-bit code reader.  It had been sent by the UK Leica Store in Mayfair to Wetzlar for paid repair and as the cosmetics were already damaged the owner decided "what the hell" and went to town on it with a knife/sandpaper.  It did mean that I got an MP in 2018 for £2.5K, which is less than they sell for today in 2021.  Perhaps she was inspired by the Lenny Kravitz limited edition body?  I'm not sure whether she had paid full price for it originally, she was a "Leica Ambassador", so maybe not?  Gouging the screen surround was a bit over the top, and no brass under the paint .  Maybe it happened in the original fall?  I had the receipts for the work carried out and the inspection report.

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[Tessar.]

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[IkarusJohn]

Ah, I understand.

I don’t mind the signs of life on my cameras.   Actually, that’s not true.  Initially, they offend me for the lack of care on my part.  Then I get over it, and they become like the scars on my body, the lines of age.  And I accept them for what they are. Life.

[ianman]

11 hours ago, Tessar. said:

my normal dealer for commission sales didn't want to touch it and said it had been abused (which it hadn't),

 

1 hour ago, Tessar. said:

the owner decided "what the hell" and went to town on it with a knife/sandpaper.

I shudder to think what an "abused" camera would have to suffer.

[Tessar.]

3 minutes ago, ianman said:

 

I shudder to think what an "abused" camera would have to suffer.

I agree, I bought it because of the price and because Leica Germany had repaired and serviced it and passed it as within spec.  It did function perfectly well.  I don't think I'd do it again though.  I'm seriously considering a black paint M10-R in the next six months but I will be looking after it when I get it

[ianman]

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I understand why you got it, but my point was that you mentioned that it hadn't been abused but went on to write that the previous owner had taken a knife and sandpaper to it. I call that abused... cosmetically speaking at least

I do neither. I don't have a go at them with a hammer of chisel but I don't baby them either, I just... well... use them for their primary and only function. I mean what's next? Putting them on a gold chain to wear around our necks?

[wizard]

Am 10.9.2021 um 11:08 schrieb harmen:

Why say that something is stupid?  That sounds like watering it down.

I tend to see this from a more pragmatic point of view. If someone decides to use sandpaper on his/her new M10 BP, well it IS his/her new camera. He/she can do to that camera whatever he/she likes. Cut it in half using a chainsaw. I would call this a stupid behaviour, but then again it is not MY camera, so why bother?

Cheers,

Andy

[Tessar.]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

I understand why you got it, but my point was that you mentioned that it hadn't been abused but went on to write that the previous owner had taken a knife and sandpaper to it. I call that abused... cosmetically speaking at least

I do neither. I don't have a go at them with a hammer of chisel but I don't baby them either, I just... well... use them for their primary and only function. I mean what's next? Putting them on a gold chain to wear around our necks?

Yes definitely :).   I meant mechanically it was working within spec.  I'm probably more careful than most in that I use a half case and am mindful of putting it down on things that may move or tip over.  I wouldn't hesitate to take it to a beach though I would keep it in my camera bag when not using it.  And I do take it out during rain, but again only when shooting. 

I would do the same when I have the M10-R (or M10-M not sure which yet) but would probably fret more than when I use my M240.

 

[Tp2000]

Whilst I don’t doubt the deal you got, I would be surprised to find a working professional photographer would take sandpaper or a knife to a tool of their trade. Sarah shoots for bafta, London transport, guardian etc, so not just a “Leica Ambassador”…

The marks on the bottom are the same as I had on my M10M from simply putting it down on rough surfaces and picking it up again. Similarly the marks around the screen are from something significantly coarser than sandpaper…..sadly I only know this from a painful  experience with my M10M that required a hefty rebuild in Germany. 
 

 

[Tessar.]

It came with an affidavit.

 

Interesting pics of your M10-M in the linked thread!  Our cat put her head through the handle of a plastic shopping bag once, got spooked and tried to leave through the cat door dragging the bag of shopping and getting stuck in the door.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Tessar.

[JimmyCheng]

To redeem myself. Here is a few pics of my BP M2 (no sandpaper...)

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[AndreasG]

Nice combination with the Chanel handbag, but the wear of the self timer lever does not look natural for me.

[ianman]

15 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

Nice combination with the Chanel handbag, but the wear of the self timer lever does not look natural for me.

Same as the VF adjustment screw and around the VF itself... in fact anywhere where there aren't knocks, dents, years of rubbing by a strap. It's clear that at some point someone has gone to work on some areas of this camera.

[Tessar.]

7 hours ago, JimmyCheng said:

To redeem myself. Here is a few pics of my BP M2 (no sandpaper...)

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When I had an M2 I wished it were black, when I had a black chrome M4-P I wished it was an M2.  So those re-painted M2s that come up on eBay from time to time are very tempting to me.

[JimmyCheng]

10 hours ago, ianman said:

Same as the VF adjustment screw and around the VF itself... in fact anywhere where there aren't knocks, dents, years of rubbing by a strap. It's clear that at some point someone has gone to work on some areas of this camera.

it's a possibility. But still, I think it looks rather nice.

[RF’sDelight]

Am 27.8.2021 um 14:43 schrieb wizard:

Looks good! But that lens is more like 20 years old. The serial numbers on those are deceptive, as those numbers were used by Leica way before the regular lens numbering approached those numbers. I recall seeing a lens like yours and a matching black paint Summicron 35 asph in a shop in 2000 or 2001, and they both had serial numbers starting with 4 xxx xxx. Those lenses were released together with the Millenium M6TTL black paint. I think there was a black paint Summicron 90 asph available at the time, too.

Your are absolutely right. And since there was no high demand for analogue M sets anymore ADs began to sell the parts separately.

This lens is 13 years in my collection that’s what I was referring to. During that time every used M lens was a bargain. Too bad I didn't buy more lenses back then. 😎

[BlueIn2Red]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:56 PM, chasdfg said:

Suspect they'll be pushing more black chrome bodies to go with those black chrome lenses they have been releasing over the past few years (which don't go so well with black paint).

They've actually made very few black chrome lenses, unfortunately. Most modern lenses are anodised, either black or silver, which bizarrely (in my opinion, clearly not Leica's!) doesn't match the modern bodies, which are black chrome and silver chrome (with some exceptions of course). And now the black paint M10-R is here, which has very few modern Leica lenses in BP to go with it - ironically Zeiss lenses match much better than Leica ones (albeit they aren't genuine black paint, just a more glossy anodising).

[BlueIn2Red]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:08 PM, Al Brown said:

Black paint brassing is exactly like the red dot on the M.

Some people hate it.
Some people love it.

Some people use sandpaper to induce brassing. Some people use gaffer tape to cover the red dot.
The world is indeed a strange place.

Strange, but wonderful. Imagine if we all liked exactly the same thing (so ... just one camera in the whole world!), how boring would that be? What I find more "strange" actually is the desire on forums to criticise other people's choices - live and let live etc!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Winedemonium]

I am here, in this thread. That already says that I am interested in the mythical-romantic (read: sucker for it!) Leica mythology for "black paint". Having churned my way through multiple bodies and lenses over the years, I understand the odd contradictions. Basically if you go for the -P version of the M you will have slightly better value retention. For example, an M9-P is much more likely to be close to mint than an M9-P black paint. The latter, scuffed up, will sell for less.

In Hong Kong, where I live, an M10-R BP is a significant premium over an M10-R. Let's say 30% premium. I enquired with my dealer about trading in my fairly mint M10-P silver chrome for a new M10-R black paint. The cash required would represent a very significant premium. I'd need to put in about 40% in cash. Some of this of course is the difference betweeen used and new. But there you go.

And if I took the M10-R black paint, it would of course fairly quickly find itself in the lower grades of used condition, because it is paint finished - the very thing we covet here, is actually something that more dramatically reduces used values (unless you are a Magnum affiliate, etc). 

So, there's the logic. If written nothing revelatory here. 

Yet... I'm still drawn to doing this trade. The delta is basically pure expense, because I imagine, logically, the delta will have vanished in a couple of years, when - perhaps - the M10-P will be seen as one of the last "pure" (ahem) digital M bodies with bottom plate, etc, and most silver ones will look nice, and the BP, by then, will have had its allure faded, and condition issue will lead to discounts. 

The logic part of my brain asks myself this as a choice: do you want this M10-R - a higher resolution M (when considering output) with a somewhat low horsepower CPU for the task, but, in the ultimate long-term finish - black paint, which becomes your, utlimately unsaleable - "wabi sabi" piece, or, do you hold out, wait not only for the M11 announcement, letting others discover the gremlins, and get your M11 when it comes time for M11-P? If you do the latter, your M10-P will contribute well to it, and the M10-R BP will be yesterday's breakfast.

Actually, I'm fine with this being a purely emotional decision. (After all digital M is pretty borderline in rational decision-making). 

I guess what this boils down to for me is - do I think I'll hold an M10-R BP long enough to justify the hit, or would I imagine preferring the hit of upgrading the M10-P to an M11 (or later M11-P) later? A choice of billable pleasures! But I think that is - honestly - what I'm asking myself here.

In other words "I see you, Leica", but I'm okay with it, because there is pleasure in it, and as long as I'm honest with myself about it, and I can afford it, it's fine. 

I'd love to hear the views of those who have bought the M10-R BP, who have been through a few of these cycles, about what you think now about this camera.

 

As a left-field option, I have considered sending a M10-R (regular) to Kanto, along with a lens, for custom painting. The grey market price difference between a new M10-R and a new M10-R BP makes this a comparable option.