Sigma fp L on the way?

[jdlaing]

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5 hours ago, P1505 said:

Took the SL out today for the “last time” and can’t sell it. The FP L will wait.

Why can’t you sell it?

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[BlueIn2Red]

Wild guess, because he likes it?

[Alan Friedman]

20 hours ago, P1505 said:

Took the SL out today for the “last time” and can’t sell it. The FP L will wait.

If circumstances require keeping only one camera of these two, the choice would definitely require some careful consideration of the photography that you do. Though both create excellent image files, their ergonomics and suitability for particular types of shooting are different. The SL is a beautifully engineered camera - heavy for walking around (depending on your vigor and lenses of choice) but excellent in a studio setting. Versatile with its mechanical shutter and incredibly robust (perhaps overly so for a digital body and the finite life expectancy that comes with that genre). The fp is light and nimble for carry - a jack of many trades but some would argue the master of none. But if its shortcomings (well documented in reviews) do not interfere with how you use it and if portability is important to you, it might be just the ticket. The electronic shutter is completely silent (unless you assign a sound to it) though it can be difficult to use in artificial light and for moving subjects. It's ability to handle high ISO shooting is remarkably good. Personally, I will keep my SL and my fp and will add the new fp-L as well. The reviews that are accumulating on line for the pre-production model outline its weaknesses but as a stills shooter who likes to have as few excuses as possible to leave a camera behind when out in the world, the fp fits. I've owned cameras back to the M3 (still own that one) and when I think of favorites over the years, I remember my first travels with an Olympus XA - a very small, fixed lens 35mm camera with manual focus and settings that I carried everywhere for a time. My enjoyment of the fp reminds me of that camera. I have a small museum of Leica M bodies but I've yet to update beyond the M8. There is something about the cost, the limitations of the design, the traditional massive build and the speed of obsolescence that has kept me from purchasing an M10 series camera. The fp also has limitations, but at its price, I can accept them. And I especially like the level of build quality which is impressive yet seems perfectly suited to the technological lifespan of the camera.

Sorry for the long rambling, but I would suggest that you spend as much time as possible handling the fp (or fp-L) to see if you like the feel of the camera. In the end, I think that will determine how much you will use it and how much you use it will determine the quality of the images that it delivers.

all the best,

Alan

[steveBK]

On 3/31/2021 at 11:26 AM, Alan Friedman said:

If circumstances require keeping only one camera of these two, the choice would definitely require some careful consideration of the photography that you do. Though both create excellent image files, their ergonomics and suitability for particular types of shooting are different. The SL is a beautifully engineered camera - heavy for walking around (depending on your vigor and lenses of choice) but excellent in a studio setting. Versatile with its mechanical shutter and incredibly robust (perhaps overly so for a digital body and the finite life expectancy that comes with that genre). The fp is light and nimble for carry - a jack of many trades but some would argue the master of none. But if its shortcomings (well documented in reviews) do not interfere with how you use it and if portability is important to you, it might be just the ticket. The electronic shutter is completely silent (unless you assign a sound to it) though it can be difficult to use in artificial light and for moving subjects. It's ability to handle high ISO shooting is remarkably good. Personally, I will keep my SL and my fp and will add the new fp-L as well. The reviews that are accumulating on line for the pre-production model outline its weaknesses but as a stills shooter who likes to have as few excuses as possible to leave a camera behind when out in the world, the fp fits. I've owned cameras back to the M3 (still own that one) and when I think of favorites over the years, I remember my first travels with an Olympus XA - a very small, fixed lens 35mm camera with manual focus and settings that I carried everywhere for a time. My enjoyment of the fp reminds me of that camera. I have a small museum of Leica M bodies but I've yet to update beyond the M8. There is something about the cost, the limitations of the design, the traditional massive build and the speed of obsolescence that has kept me from purchasing an M10 series camera. The fp also has limitations, but at its price, I can accept them. And I especially like the level of build quality which is impressive yet seems perfectly suited to the technological lifespan of the camera.

Sorry for the long rambling, but I would suggest that you spend as much time as possible handling the fp (or fp-L) to see if you like the feel of the camera. In the end, I think that will determine how much you will use it and how much you use it will determine the quality of the images that it delivers.

all the best,

Alan

Agreed, they are all different beasts and have their own niche.
I currently have
-M10M (prev M10/M240)
-SL2
-FP

M series holds a special nostalgia for me, is the best platform for M lenses, feels most discreet, easy enough all-day carry, and works great for street..

SL2 is the best all-around camera.  IBIS, best resolution, best VF, long battery life, good with M lenses.
Great ergonomics, actually pairs very nicely with Sigma I-series lenses.. form factor/balance reminds me of a manual SLR & prime from the 80s.
It's getting the most use during pandemic as I am driving everywhere and so its not a matter of worrying about its "walk around" weight other than an hour here or there.
Plus around the house who cares about weight.

But I just can't bring myself to sell the FP still, despite planning to.  If anything, I am contemplating adding the EVF accessory to the original FP, post reviews.

FP is just the easiest carry when I am out&about doing other things.  
Pairs well with the I-series primes.  Works pretty well with M lenses (though arguably not as easy to focus as SL2).
Need to carry 2 batteries for serious shooting, but can also USB-C charge it in car to/from shooting.
Post COVID I think FP will shine even more as a great commute camera.

[caissa]

Fp L plus TL 18mm is interesting combo for walking around (still 25 MP). The smallest setup existing.

I liked the website of Mark James Ford: Heidelberg was showing the resolution, also the macro setup with monitor was interesting. Generally I like the colors much better than colors of the a7R4 with identical sensor.  https://www.blauvista.com/html/the-sigma-fp-l-camera/    See also Leigh TheSnapChick.

I found it irritating that dpr warned that 1/10 s readout time is a problem for photography. But they never issued a warning about the a7R4 which has exactly the same e-shutter. So this e-shutter should also be unusable. And the a7R3 is not much faster with 1/15 s, also unusable according to this idea. 

It will not replace my SL2, but it could be a nice second or third camera. Maybe later if it gets a little cheaper (used ?). The colors fit well the colors from Leica it seems. 

 

I would also also like to see a test with M lenses. It should be rather bad as it is the same sensor as in the Sony camera. But maybe they used a thinner layer above the sensor ?!

Edited April 3, 2021 by caissa

[verwackelt]

But take care if you often want to shoot fast moving objects. I had some bad distorted animals with the original FP.
And with e-shutter only you have no choice like in the sony that has a mechanical shutter too.
For landscape or calm objects it should be no problem…

[caissa]

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Yes, I saw the cat transformed into dog 😷🤣.   So it will not replace the SL2. But I very rarely shoot moving things, so it will not be a frequent problem. For macro it could be very handy, especially near the ground, with tripod and monitor fixed to the tripod.

It will be interesting to see the progress Sigma makes with the pdaf software. Currently it is still early. Will they be able to improve the algorithm ....   Leica and Sigma are probably both no companies with a lot of software experience.

Edited April 3, 2021 by caissa

[Alan Friedman]

The fp-L body is now in stock at B&H and others. The bundle with the EVF is apparently somewhat further out... not able to get an accurate shipping date on my order.

[steveBK]

I pulled the trigger on the fpL and I'll pick up the EVF eventually when available.

So far happy with it as a former fp+SL2 owner, consolidating my AF gear again as Leica M is my primary.

Would be interesting to know what firmware people were running in their reviews since there were a lot of conflicting reports.

Coming from the fp I've found the fpL AF to be better if anything, especially the eye/face detect modes.  Not getting false AF confirms / a lot of hesitation.
Not shooting sports/action so not too worried about electronic shutter.

High ISO, though I've not tested it extensively yet seems no worse than the fp either.
I was shooting into some strong sun / sunsets and found highlight retention to be quite good yesterday.
The resolution leaves a lot of room for cropping.

They must have updated the data processing chipsets to keep up with the 3x larger files, as the only thing that feels slower is image review.
Everything else feels snappy and responsive as ever.

Battery consumption feels to be about the same as the fp - not great, bring a spare (or charge USB-C in the car).. but again not noticeably worse than the fp either.

Downloading the latest firmware for fpL + 35/2 today, and will get a more full day of shooting in.

[Alan Friedman]

Look forward to your updates. I opted for the bundle with the EVF. No word on availability yet.

 

[bags27]

Thanks for this. I've been thinking about the fp L a lot today as I downloaded the new software for the 100-400 but find it really no better with my CL. I see better photos with the SL2 and Panasonic S1R and wonder how the lens might be better with a FF and more mps.

Among the limitations of the fp L is that switching one's view between the LCD and the EVF attachment requires pushing a switch.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3123316549/hands-on-with-the-sigma-fp-l-and-its-new-viewfinder?slide=8

Still, I'm very must thinking about it.....

[steveBK]

Fuller day of shooting Saturday, some cherry blossoms in good sunlight and then back home at night indoors.

Took about 50 shots across the day and still had 75% of battery remaining or more.  

It's nice to DL the SD card to my MacBook, then swap out my MacBook USB-C power cord to the fpL and let it charge.
I have to say the fp/fpL are also pretty remarkably unpicky about USB-C charging, unlike a lot of devices on the poorly implemented 'standard'.

 

Testing AF/ISO/etc in poor light.  ~11pm indoors with recessed lighting off, just getting some light from lamps across the the room.

ISO 4000-5000, 1/40 or so and wide open f2.. pushed further in Lightroom

AF worked well enough for me, didn't get any false confirmations, and didn't do any major hunting.

Focussed on the eyes

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Focussed on the labels

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100% crops..

 

[steveBK]

Pretty happy with this one in terms of highlight retention / dynamic range shooting into sunset

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Exposure Compensation +1 shooting up into the sky/cherry tree

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51151449851_b40b26bb3d_b.jpg

Some late day, directional hard light on this one was easily smoothed in post with curves/contrast/shadows sliders

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51151680858_6a2b92a539_b.jpg

 

[intermediatic]

Wonder if we should start a new thread for FP-L? I received my FP-L with EVF from Adorama today. It’s a truly weird beast. I am just starting to learn it, but while I think I’ll keep it, I’m finding it totally weird. It is incredibly small and well built. Will I take my SL2 to Europe with me next month? No way! But my FP-L, very likely. It seems like it will be incredible for landscape photography, but I just tried it in my kitchen and the LED lighting caused strobing which I’ve never seen on any camera before. Maybe it was the 1/320 shutter speed. 
 

Its truly, truly odd.

[bags27]

40 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

Wonder if we should start a new thread for FP-L? I received my FP-L with EVF from Adorama today. It’s a truly weird beast. I am just starting to learn it, but while I think I’ll keep it, I’m finding it totally weird. It is incredibly small and well built. Will I take my SL2 to Europe with me next month? No way! But my FP-L, very likely. It seems like it will be incredible for landscape photography, but I just tried it in my kitchen and the LED lighting caused strobing which I’ve never seen on any camera before. Maybe it was the 1/320 shutter speed. 
 

Its truly, truly odd.

Yes, for sure. I'd be interested if you'd experiment in the kitchen as to what is the fastest shutter speed that doesn't produce the strobing. I'm thinking of getting it and one of its purposes would be for scanning negatives, lit, of course, by LEDs. 

[intermediatic]

1/60 … I wouldn't worry about using it for scanning negatives but forget it for handheld indoor photography with the LED lights that most of us use. No way is that going to be ok with a 61MP sensor. 

 

 

[steveBK]

I think we can post fpL in here - 

 

[Alan Friedman]

3 hours ago, intermediatic said:

Wonder if we should start a new thread for FP-L? I received my FP-L with EVF from Adorama today. It’s a truly weird beast. I am just starting to learn it, but while I think I’ll keep it, I’m finding it totally weird. It is incredibly small and well built. Will I take my SL2 to Europe with me next month? No way! But my FP-L, very likely. It seems like it will be incredible for landscape photography, but I just tried it in my kitchen and the LED lighting caused strobing which I’ve never seen on any camera before. Maybe it was the 1/320 shutter speed. 
 

Its truly, truly odd.

The banding indoors in artificial light is the biggest nuisance and weakness of the electronic shutter. 1/60 works okay for me and sometimes 1/125. I was tempted to cancel my order from B&H where it is still not shipping and go with Adorama. Being patient and waiting with my fp. How do you find the new EVF compared to the SL2? 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Alan Friedman

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[LocalHero1953]

5 hours ago, intermediatic said:

Wonder if we should start a new thread for FP-L? I received my FP-L with EVF from Adorama today. It’s a truly weird beast. I am just starting to learn it, but while I think I’ll keep it, I’m finding it totally weird. It is incredibly small and well built. Will I take my SL2 to Europe with me next month? No way! But my FP-L, very likely. It seems like it will be incredible for landscape photography, but I just tried it in my kitchen and the LED lighting caused strobing which I’ve never seen on any camera before. Maybe it was the 1/320 shutter speed. 
 

Its truly, truly odd.

Is it different from the effect you get with any other electronic shutter and artificial light? That would just be the penalty of only having an electronic shutter, but it is not specific to Sigma - Leicas (except the M) do it as well, but you do have the choice of a mechanical shutter with a Leica.

[bags27]

8 hours ago, Alan Friedman said:

The banding indoors in artificial light is the biggest nuisance and weakness of the electronic shutter. 1/60 works okay for me and sometimes 1/125. I was tempted to cancel my order from B&H where it is still not shipping and go with Adorama. Being patient and waiting with my fp. How do you find the new EVF compared to the SL2? 

I have had better luck with Adorama, both with earlier availability of products and with speed of delivery. I think B&H as a wider assortment of stock, but for some reason Adorama seems more responsive.