GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[Jeff S]

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32 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Indeed. That was the main reason for me to disregard the SL system -too bulky and heavy for hiking and travel...

The SL2 plus one or two zooms makes hiking easy for me.  My prints aren’t big enough to warrant more MP or, probably, a bigger sensor. The Leica lenses, viewfinders, controls and design win for me.  Admittedly though, a more responsive X1D body with IBIS and joystick might appeal; maybe the nicest digital body I’ve held, and the files are more than adequate.  And maybe their new 45P signals a trend toward smaller lenses with mechanical focus.

Jeff

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[Mr.Prime]

This Fuji camera looks marvellous. At this price why not use it as an EVF “M11”, you get pretty much what everyone whose ever asked for an EVF based M camera. Just add a lens adapter. Sure, your M lenses won’t have a large enough image circle, but even cropped to FF this Fuji camera still hits the home run.

 

What I am not yet sure about but am intrigued, also seen on the Sony a1 (along with an EVF that might be the first worthy of replacing an OVF), is the 4 shot pixel shifting option for capturing full colour information at every pixel location. Not clear if it’s fast enough for hand held use but it offers the promise of the kind of image quality associated with mono only sensors and foveon type sensors which all avoid interpolation.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mr.Prime

[BernardC]

31 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

This Fuji camera looks marvellous. At this price why not use it as an EVF “M11”, you get pretty much what everyone whose ever asked for an EVF based M camera.

Doesn't it remind you of the "Texas Leicas" that Fuji released in the previous century? All the features of the M, except for size, user experience, and lenses... Others may feel different, but I think those are three key features of the M.

The internet tends to get all excited about every new camera, but to me these are not groundbreaking. The A1 is an A9 with more megapixels (which they already offer in other cameras). Let's not forget that Leica offers a 47MP mirrorless with pixel shifting, so 50MP with pixel shifting isn't anything to write home about. This one has 8K video, like Canon, but will it be good 8K? There are a few 8K options out there already on the pro video side of the fence (and 12K too); you won't see A1s used on-set.

The new Fuji is the same camera that they already sell, with fewer features. They did the same thing with their 50MP cameras. That's not a bad thing, but it's not innovative. It will definitely convince some people who were saving-up for the 50MP version to spend a little more.

[aksclix]

Maybe Leica should buy Nikon and have a new baby Likon or Neica 😂 

too bad that I started photography with Nikon D70 then 90 then 7000 then 600 then 810 then D4s.. now they’re bankrupt? Still got the d90 and d600 converted to super blue IR.. 

My 100s was pre-ordered immediately when they opened it up on B&H but I am keeping my SL2 forever! Unless the SL3 has superior AF, flip screen and a wonderful trade-in deal 😌 

 

[SrMi]

The grass is always greener on the other side :).

[Sandokan]

The Fuji 50S is 2200 cheaper in my area and I look forward to them on the second hand market ... or I wait till I have saved up for the 907X with a lens or two

[aksclix]

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52 minutes ago, Sandokan said:

The Fuji 50S is 2200 cheaper in my area and I look forward to them on the second hand market ... or I wait till I have saved up for the 907X with a lens or two

Hope you wait enough because the 50s should definitely see a big discount because it makes no sense to keep the 50s and the 100s only $500 apart!! 

[setuporg]

Strangely, this makes my S system frozen in time and eternal.  The rendering of the S lenses supersedes anything X1D could do and I'm disinclined to get 10x iPhone rendition.  So au contraire, this only makes S a legend soon.

[P1505]

Last night I spent a lovely hour with some coffee and photo books. And I realised I could use a basic 6mp camera to achieve the types of shots I love.

I’ll spend the money on travel, when I’m allowed to travel. Planning a tour of the UK.

[Mr.Q]

9 hours ago, BernardC said:

.....to me these are not groundbreaking. The A1 is an A9 with more megapixels (which they already offer in other cameras).

Come on now.... the A1's sensor readout speed is 1/240s while doing 120 AF/AE calculations per second, 1.5x and 2x faster than the A9II, respectively.  No other camera offers something like that... not even close.  This is a pro sports and wildlife photographer's dream camera.  Not to mention that it's pretty good at taking other genres of photos too with a 50MP sensor.  And it takes video at 8K and 4K/120p.  Nothing groundbreaking though.

[wjdrijfhout]

The choice for one camera over the other is less about specs of the latest model, but more about ecosystems and (for me at least) development activity. The GFX system has seen tremendous development over the past few years and continues to do so at very high pace. Cameras, lenses and third party accessories have all seen major improvements.

I have the privilege to use both the GFX100 and the SL2 and can’t say one is head and shoulders over the other. The handling of the SL2 is definitely superior and the sumicrons ar perhaps the best lenses in the world, but the zooms are clunky in handling. The GFX is heavy and large, but that should be much better with the GFX100s, 100 MP is truly addictive and the rapidly expanding lens-line is very impressive. As an ecosystem it feels to me that GFX has matched and perhaps overtaken the SL system in a short time. 

Both Fuji and Leica are photographers brands, as opposed to marketing brands such as Canon and Sony. Leica has an undeniable attraction once you’re hooked to it, and I plan on keeping and growing it for years to come, but for anyone coming in new, the GFX system is a very realistic, sustainable and attractive alternative. 
 

Options, always great to have options ....

[Fedro]

anyone planning to ditch their SL2and/ or X1Ds for the GFX100S?

I have been using both (like Gordon says) and constantly thinking about what to let go of (I have too much stuff)

I prefer the files and handling for the X1D but it is a very incomplete system to use solely ..

[Jon Warwick]

21 minutes ago, Fedro said:

anyone planning to ditch their SL2and/ or X1Ds for the GFX100S?

 

Yes, simply because I can't envisage myself using my SL2 once I have the GFX100S that I ordered yesterday.

As I alluded above, this is due to to image quality, rather than handling, and it's hence similar to why I didn't use my Leica M7 very much after I purchased a Mamiya 7.

Unlike the Mamiya 7 vs Leica M7, the difference this time round is the 100mp medium format + GF 63mm lens is lighter than my  SL2 + 50mm SL Summicron ......

[frame-it]

11 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

Yes, simply because I can't envisage myself using my SL2 once I have the GFX100S that I ordered yesterday.

As I alluded above, this is due to to image quality, rather than handling, and it's hence similar to why I didn't use my Leica M7 very much after I purchased a Mamiya 7.

Unlike the Mamiya 7 vs Leica M7, the difference this time round is the 100mp medium format + GF 63mm lens is lighter than my  SL2 + 50mm SL Summicron ......

50mp medium format GFX50R + GF 63mm lens felt  lighter than my old SL1 + silver 50mm Summilux M

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, Fedro said:

anyone planning to ditch their SL2and/ or X1Ds for the GFX100S?

I have been using both (like Gordon says) and constantly thinking about what to let go of (I have too much stuff)

I prefer the files and handling for the X1D but it is a very incomplete system to use solely ..

Yes, I was leaning towards ditching the SL2 anyway so I will consolidate. Just need to decide whether to go all out and upgrade the A9 to the ONE. 

[padam]

12 hours ago, BernardC said:

The new Fuji is the same camera that they already sell, with fewer features. They did the same thing with their 50MP cameras. That's not a bad thing, but it's not innovative. It will definitely convince some people who were saving-up for the 50MP version to spend a little more.

I would say this is a bit unfair, it is the nicest medium-format body they have designed by far and closing in on FF in terms of size and weight.

So not only is it cheaper but overall better, making the whole system more attractive. It does always not need to be innovative.
It is only the GFX 100 users that may be unhappy as those few advantages don't outweigh its disadvantages, the depreciation on that camera will be even bigger than it was before.

People in forums are a bit too obsessed with specs rather than simply looking at something and see how it operates "just as a camera".

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, padam said:

People in forums are a bit too obsessed with specs rather than simply looking at something and see how it operates "just as a camera".

Exactly, and that's the problem that I have with previous Fujis. The AF seemed like it was controled by a puppy, never focusing on the same spot twice. MF was near impossible with a moving subject (something that Leica got right with the SL and successors). In other words, all those pixels, and no to control where they go. The lenses are good value, for the most part, but they need to be stopped-down a bit before they pop.

I freely admit that these are my issues, not Fuji's. A landscape shooter might not even notice the things that I find to be showstoppers. Certainly, the (now) four Fujis and the X1D are huge improvements on that front, compared to trying to squeeze every last bit of performance from an A7r. The race is a little tighter with the SL2, simply because the Leica handles so much better, and the Leica lenses are so good. I think you need to print very very large before the Fuji 100 will show an advantage. But not too large, because that advantage goes away once the Fuji image starts to break-down. (Before anyone comments, I have a pet peeve about large gallery prints. I think that most photographers make prints that are just a little larger than what their images can handle, and the images end-up looking like mush as a consequence).

[padam]

12 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Exactly, and that's the problem that I have with previous Fujis. The AF seemed like it was controled by a puppy, never focusing on the same spot twice. MF was near impossible with a moving subject (something that Leica got right with the SL and successors). In other words, all those pixels, and no to control where they go. The lenses are good value, for the most part, but they need to be stopped-down a bit before they pop.

I freely admit that these are my issues, not Fuji's. A landscape shooter might not even notice the things that I find to be showstoppers. Certainly, the (now) four Fujis and the X1D are huge improvements on that front, compared to trying to squeeze every last bit of performance from an A7r. The race is a little tighter with the SL2, simply because the Leica handles so much better, and the Leica lenses are so good. I think you need to print very very large before the Fuji 100 will show an advantage. But not too large, because that advantage goes away once the Fuji image starts to break-down. (Before anyone comments, I have a pet peeve about large gallery prints. I think that most photographers make prints that are just a little larger than what their images can handle, and the images end-up looking like mush as a consequence).

What this camera shows is progression, it is getting better and more refined all the time while becoming more affordable. The optics on these new mirrorless systems are really superb, but now they are comparable in price to the lenses made for this system. I see these Fuji lenses shot wide-open with plenty of pop.
I saw a comparison between the "bog-standard" XF 63mm f/2.8 lens against the APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2, seemed surprisingly similar performance-wise.

So it brings that question about different systems more into consideration for some people, do they really just want to stay in the same sensor size or move even higher. The option is there now.

The Leica has similar usability issues regarding a fixed screen or the battery management and I am not convinced that contrast-detect AF can work better than the hybrid AF in this camera in a lot of situations and it is rather large for a FF mirrorless camera. So it's not all perfect and it's not going to get any cheaper either.

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[Mr.Prime]

6 hours ago, P1505 said:

Last night I spent a lovely hour with some coffee and photo books. And I realised I could use a basic 6mp camera to achieve the types of shots I love.

I’ll spend the money on travel, when I’m allowed to travel. Planning a tour of the UK.

Exactly!

Now, imagine what could be achieved in terms of innovation if we pick, say, 12Mp as our target FF resolution. We can build sensors with large pixels which can be very sophisticated in their performance and functionality, using pixel shift for colour at every pixel site without interpolation. 

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, padam said:

I would say this is a bit unfair, it is the nicest medium-format body they have designed by far and closing in on FF in terms of size and weight.

So not only is it cheaper but overall better, making the whole system more attractive. It does always not need to be innovative.
It is only the GFX 100 users that may be unhappy as those few advantages don't outweigh its disadvantages, the depreciation on that camera will be even bigger than it was before.

People in forums are a bit too obsessed with specs rather than simply looking at something and see how it operates "just as a camera".

It seems that GFX100 continues to be sold new without any price reduction. GFX100S is not a replacement for GFX100, therefore I assume that the depreciation is not increasing.