A New Year Wish for the M System

[Mr.Prime]

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

Is it really bad that my wish for the future M is that it has a high quality EVF instead of OVF? 

not ‘really bad’ but perhaps, like saying your wish for a future BBQ is that it has propane instead of charcoal - for some folk it just makes no sense, either it’s a real BBQ (with charcoal) or it’s just a grill that happens to placed in your back yard instead of the kitchen. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Mr.Prime

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[jdlaing]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

not ‘really bad’ but perhaps, like saying your wish for a future BBQ is that it has propane instead of charcoal - for some folk it just makes no sense, either it’s a real BBQ (with charcoal) or it’s just a grill that happens to placed in your back yard instead of the kitchen. 

Real Barbecues don’t use charcoal. They use wood.

[fotografr]

50 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Real Barbecues don’t use charcoal. They use wood.

Isn't charcoal burned wood?

[jdlaing]

13 minutes ago, fotografr said:

Isn't charcoal burned wood?

Yes it is. Wood with all the good stuff removed.

[Good To Be Retired]

34 minutes ago, fotografr said:

Isn't charcoal burned wood?

In the same sense that my leather couch is a cow

[Kwesi]

Leica's path to the Q is littered with many brilliant but failed X cameras because they stubbornly refused to implement an EVF. The Q is now a smashing success. Eventually they will have an interchangeable native lens Q that will accept M lenses via an adapter - much like the SL. The Q must compete succesfuly with the likes of Sony fuji, et al.

The M won't change simply because there are enough of us willing to buy it in its purist form for Leica to keep it as a profitable line. Case in point - the 50/1.2 lenses introduced this week at 8k and 16k are sold out and are doubling in value.

[Guest]

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59 minutes ago, Steven said:

Mmmm I like my Q2, but I would really prefer an M with an EVF. 

Let me even go one step further and describe you my DREAM camera right now: 

M10D with a 5.76 million dots EVF instead of the OVF/RF, with the option to set focus peaking to low/medium/high. 

Add to that the option to set auto shutoff to 30 secs (current min time is 2 mins), and I've reached Leica Nirvana. 

But if you had all that you would just lose interest and want something else.

Bit like the kids in charlie and the chocolate factory.

[chasdfg]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

How do you know this ? 

I think everyone on the forum knows this 😂😂

 

(only joking, have a good weekend!)

[fotografr]

15 hours ago, Steven said:

Is it really bad that my wish for the future M is that it has a high quality EVF instead of OVF? 

You should burn in hell for that thought. Or, at the very least this:

 

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[lct]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

I prefer death by fire 

It is the right place then. Either you ask on the M forum and you'll get responses like the ones above, or you try on the SL forum and they'll tell you that the EVF-M is called SL .

[lct]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

Both are wrong, maybe ? 

I suspect they are but they don't know it yet .

[Guest]

I think its a bit like the argument for a 35mm Q camera [ EVF M].

Leica would simply increase their costs but not sell anymore cameras in my view.

[kegon]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Steven:

M10D with a 5.76 million dots EVF instead of the OVF/RF, with the option to set focus peaking to low/medium/high. 

M stands for „Messucher“ (engl. rangefinder) so how ridiculous would that be?...

[fotografr]

41 minutes ago, Steven said:

While what you say is true about the M, I disagree about the Q. 

People love the M. But there are more rangefinder lovers than evf lovers in the world. 

on the other hand though: 

People love the Q. But there are much more 35 lovers than 28 lovers in the world. If they developed a 35 Q, I am confident that those who love the 28 will continue buying the original Q, and all those who hated the 28 and wished for 35 or 50 will buy the 35mm Q. 
Don't forget that the majority of Leica users are over sixty years old (no offence to all my forum friends) and their eyesight are degrading. The logical choice once the M doesnt work is the Q. Not the SL, because M users like light setups.

The Q at 35mm (and even maybe at 50) has the potential to be an even bigger hit than it already is. I am so sure of this that I am willing to reimburse Leica for all their development costs if they come out with a 35mm Q3 and it does not sell.

I felt exactly the same way about the 35 vs 28 focal length but the Q2M changed my mind. With that file size, the images can easily be cropped as if one was using a 50 or 75. The other thing that's changed my thinking is walking around with a 28 on my M10M. It's great for street shooting and also for landscapes. Spending a bit of time looking through the Q2M image thread has really made an impression on me.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

While what you say is true about the M, I disagree about the Q. 

People love the M. But there are more rangefinder lovers than evf lovers in the world. 

on the other hand though: 

People love the Q. But there are much more 35 lovers than 28 lovers in the world. If they developed a 35 Q, I am confident that those who love the 28 will continue buying the original Q, and all those who hated the 28 and wished for 35 or 50 will buy the 35mm Q. 
Don't forget that the majority of Leica users are over sixty years old (no offence to all my forum friends) and their eyesight are degrading. The logical choice once the M doesnt work is the Q. Not the SL, because M users like light setups.

The Q at 35mm (and even maybe at 50) has the potential to be an even bigger hit than it already is. I am so sure of this that I am willing to reimburse Leica for all their development costs if they come out with a 35mm Q3 and it does not sell.

Maybe your right? but i was told smart phones use 28mm lenses and if true thats the new normal focal length lens.

Regarding your offer on development costs im not sure leica would be interested.

I offered to pay 10% of my monthly wages from my job as a warehouse operative to leica as long as the kept a Cra**y EVF out of the leica M but they were not keen on taking my money.

However mr karbe assured me they would not ruin the M by putting an EVF into a beautiful rangefinder camera so i had no cause for concern.

Seriously though i do not believe they will dilute the M by adding an EVF or the Q by making a 35mm model.

No reason why the external EVF cannot be greatly improved for the m ,i used a VF_4 on my olympus and it was very good,better in my view than the original Q EVF p[ i tried them together in a leica store].

[lct]

15 minutes ago, Steven said:

if the future visoflex, that should be updated with the m11,  can be better integrated with the software, have a nicer and sleeker design, and come with 5.7M dots and a 120 refresh rate, I’ll pay 2k for this if I have too

You mean a Visoflex as compact as this one?  Just kidding but as long as it is a hot shoe accessory it will never compete with built-in EVFs. This way it won't compete with the SL either so everybody (but a couple of dreamers) will be happy. 

 

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[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Steven said:

You re right on every point. 
And so was I. 
We’re both right. That’s great when that happens. 
 

Regarding the external evf, the current one is horrible. Quality, design, and software integration. 
if the future visoflex, that should be updated with the m11,  can be better integrated with the software, have a nicer and sleeker design, and come with 5.7M dots and a 120 refresh rate, I’ll pay 2k for this if I have too. That’s 4 times the price of the current one. 

When i took my olympus pen ep-5 and VF-4 external EVF  to london camera exchange to compare it with the leica Q i was staggered to discover the olympus add on EVF was better than the expensive Q built in  EVF!! 

At the shop i picked up an M10 which was wonderful and like using my minolta x-700 but better which resulted in me buying the M262.

Point is leica should be able to supply a brilliant high quality visoflex/EVF for a future M camera with no excuses for failure in this area.

The 2013 VF-4 has bigger magnification than the olympus PEN F EVF and is much better than the EVF available for the M10 series even though its from 2013 approx which seems weird to me and a fail on leica's part.

[DrM]

For the M11... M10body design, with:

- Small frame around the viewfinder so I don't smudge the VF

- Global shutter 1/8000 or faster, with flash support, no mechanical shutter

- Working fast link with the FOTO app

- Auto adjust for the lens/VF calibration (no more shipping..)

- Weather sealed body (yes I know the M mount is not weather sealed. Still I don't want to worry about the rest)

- Selectable VF framelines to illuminate with LED.

- New EVF visioflex that is usable (120 Hz, 5MP>)

 

That's all

 

Marc 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[roma]

My biggest wish is for the next M to startup and wake up from sleep mode a lot faster. When my wife shoots side by side with me with here Canon 5D series, she can wake up her camera and autofocus way before my M10 wakes up and sometimes I miss a shot. Clearly, it’s not a huge deal, but definitely an aggravation.

My second wish is for the company to have 2 M lines running. One with a lower (let’s say keep 24Mp) sensor and one with a higher one for people who need more pixels. I’m in the camp of having much better dynamic range at higher ISOs than anything else. I want good color and flexible files at 6400-12800 ISO for street shooting than more pixels for landscape or whatever else.

The rest can stay the same. In fact, I insist. I’m tired of getting new batteries and other accessories every time a new M comes out.

[astrostl]

16 minutes ago, roma said:

My second wish is for the company to have 2 M lines running. One with a lower (let’s say keep 24Mp) sensor and one with a higher one for people who need more pixels.

Good news: this is already true! Leica discusses it in this video around the 10 minute mark, "M portfolio".

Edited February 13, 2021 by astrostl