fotografr Posted February 9, 2021 Share #141 Posted February 9, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 minute ago, astrostl said: Who is calling for this alleged replacement? Even on this very page, I'm seeing this. Where in the M body do you think there's room to put an EVF unless the rangefinder mechanism is removed? Have you ever seen how tightly packed all of the mechanisms and electronics are in the M10? The only option would be to increase the size of the M to accommodate an integrated EVF and I doubt there's much support for that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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astrostl Posted February 9, 2021 Share #142 Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, fotografr said: Where in the M body do you think there's room to put an EVF unless the rangefinder mechanism is removed? Have you ever seen how tightly packed all of the mechanisms and electronics are in the M10? The only option would be to increase the size of the M to accommodate an integrated EVF and I doubt there's much support for that. This is a reference to the possibility of multiple non-replacement systems. Kinda like how the S, SL, M, Q, and CL lines currently co-exist without incident. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 9, 2021 Share #143 Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, astrostl said: This is a reference to the possibility of multiple non-replacement systems. Kinda like how the S, SL, M, Q, and CL lines currently co-exist without incident. So you would advocate for Leica to offer two versions, such as a M11 rangefinder and a M11 EVF? I wouldn't hold my breath for that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted February 9, 2021 Share #144 Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, fotografr said: So you would advocate for Leica to offer two versions, such as a M11 rangefinder and a M11 EVF? I wouldn't hold my breath for that. There are currently eleven (11) different actively-listed M bodies: MP, M-A, M-M, M 262, M 240, M10, M10-P, M10-D, M-E, M10-M, and M10-R. Whether or not one should hold one's breath or not for it, the point is that the "don't replace my precious M" argument is a straw man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 9, 2021 Share #145 Posted February 9, 2021 Just now, astrostl said: There are currently eleven (11) different actively-listed M bodies: MP, M-A, M-M, M 262, M 240, M10, M10-P, M10-D, M-E, M10-M, and M10-R. Whether or not one should hold one's breath or not for it, the point is that the "don't replace my precious M" argument is a straw man. The models you just listed are not all currently in production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted February 10, 2021 Share #146 Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, fotografr said: The models you just listed are not all currently in production. Okay. Would you please possibly consider the actual point of the message? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 10, 2021 Share #147 Posted February 10, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 6 minutes ago, fotografr said: So you would advocate for Leica to offer two versions, such as a M11 rangefinder and a M11 EVF? I wouldn't hold my breath for that. I would certainly buy such an M11-EVF but Leica said no: https://tinyurl.com/1czcp2xl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 10, 2021 Share #148 Posted February 10, 2021 39 minutes ago, astrostl said: Okay. Would you please possibly consider the actual point of the message? Just click the link that lct provided above then let's move on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy_action Posted February 10, 2021 Share #149 Posted February 10, 2021 59 minutes ago, fotografr said: So you would advocate for Leica to offer two versions, such as a M11 rangefinder and a M11 EVF? Yes, that's what I was suggesting in a previous post. I like the idea, but accept that many do not. 51 minutes ago, lct said: I would certainly buy such an M11-EVF but Leica said no: https://tinyurl.com/1czcp2xl I wonder how long that position will last. If the difficulty is just in the name, then i'm sure the marketing people would have no difficulty in coming up with something other than M(essucher). And if it is a technical barrier, at some point removing the rangefinder mechanism entirely and replacing it with an EVF will be possible. I don't accept that for those who want an EVF the SL2 should be the solution. It is a completely different beast to an M shaped body, which is all i desire to use with my M mount lenses. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted February 10, 2021 Share #150 Posted February 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, fotografr said: Just click the link that lct provided above then let's move on. One can also click some links to find Leica making statements like, "the number of pixels that realizes the best balance between resolution and sensitivity is 24 megapixels" when interrogated about pixel density on the M10. This had to be carefully walked back upon the release of the M10-R, which was a result of consumer demand for more megapixels. You're free to not share in the demand for an EVF M or anything else. Only asking that you not straw man non-existing appeals for the total elimination of rangefinders. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2021 Share #151 Posted February 10, 2021 13 hours ago, feelssadman said: Does anybody else miss the switch for the drive modes (S-C-T) from the M240? Having to open up the menu to change the drive mode somehow takes the feeling of "reducing it to das Wesentliche" slightly away for me. I have an m262 until it dies. I use the timer for most of my tripod stuff and mix between single and continuous for my people pics. The M10 is not attractive in a big way because of the change of layout you mention. Maybe the m12 or 13 will recall this convenient set up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 10, 2021 Share #152 Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, easy_action said: I wonder how long that position will last. If the difficulty is just in the name, then i'm sure the marketing people would have no difficulty in coming up with something other than M(essucher). And if it is a technical barrier, at some point removing the rangefinder mechanism entirely and replacing it with an EVF will be possible. I don't accept that for those who want an EVF the SL2 should be the solution. It is a completely different beast to an M shaped body, which is all i desire to use with my M mount lenses. Other solutions could be a compact SL a-la-S5 or an M11 with a Visoflex less sluggish that the current one. But i would certainly prefer a modern M-mount mirrorless body to complement current RF offerings, which could be easy to make i suspect. Now fact is Leica is not prepared to accept such a move for now so i would not hold my breath... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 10, 2021 Share #153 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, astrostl said: You're free to not share in the demand for an EVF M or anything else. Only asking that you not straw man non-existing appeals for the total elimination of rangefinders. I expressed the same opinion as the OP at the beginning of this thread. Want an EVF, get a different camera. Whether you want me to say that or not is totally irrelevant. As to making demands of Leica, I make none. They produce cameras and if I like what they make I buy them. If not, I don't. Edited February 10, 2021 by fotografr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted February 10, 2021 Share #154 Posted February 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, fotografr said: I expressed the same opinion as the OP at the beginning of this thread. Want an EVF, get a different camera. steve 1959 and you expressed opinions to stand up against alleged calls for replacement of rangefinders with EVFs. This is not just a position that nobody here appears to support, but specific effort by Mahesh and easy_action had already been put into making it clear that their hope was for an additional model or line: "a Leica that is comparable to M's size and I can use M lenses with EVF" "if i had a wish it would be for both options" "But could the two not exist at the same time?" "Not instead of a rangefinder camera, but in addition to it." Making up an argument, assigning it to someone else, and then refuting it is the definition of a straw man. That is a lousy thing to do. In response to this being observed you have layered on more intellectual dishonesty by repeatedly attempting to move goalposts around. That is also a lousy thing to do. In the end, your wish for those who want an EVF to get a different camera is already granted - they just want the different camera to be a Leica too. Is that so upsetting? 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 10, 2021 Share #155 Posted February 10, 2021 Curious that some M users feel attacked when one suggests that an EVF version of their camera could complement the RF offer. They behave like an endangered species sort of. Do they fear that Leica will stop selling RF's because of that? Just curious. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 10, 2021 Share #156 Posted February 10, 2021 8 hours ago, astrostl said: Making up an argument, assigning it to someone else, and then refuting it is the definition of a straw man. That is a lousy thing to do. In response to this being observed you have layered on more intellectual dishonesty by repeatedly attempting to move goalposts around. That is also a lousy thing to do. In the end, your wish for those who want an EVF to get a different camera is already granted - they just want the different camera to be a Leica too. Is that so upsetting? You seem to be ascribing to me both an attitude and a position that are non-existent. First, I'm not the least bit upset. Second, I have not expressed an opinion that I would be opposed to Leica making a camera in the style of the M which had an EVF, to exist alongside the standard rangefinder. Why would I or anyone else possibly care? The only opinion I expressed was that I would not want to see the rangefinder replaced by an EVF. Now if you want to twist that into an argument and make more accusations, have at it. I've said all I'm going to say on the subject. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 10, 2021 Share #157 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, lct said: Curious that some M users feel attacked when one suggests that an EVF version of their camera could complement the RF offer. They behave like an endangered species sort of. Do they fear that Leica will stop selling RF's because of that? Just curious. If that was directed at me, the answer is no, I do not feel "attacked," nor do I "fear" what Leica will or will not sell in the future. This thread is only about expressing opinions on the future direction of the M. There's absolutely no reason to turn this into a tumble in the dirt. Edited February 10, 2021 by fotografr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 10, 2021 Share #158 Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, fotografr said: If that was directed at me, the answer is no, I do not feel "attacked," nor do I "fear" what Leica will or will not sell in the future. This thread is only about expressing opinions on the future direction of the M. There's absolutely no reason to turn this into a tumble in the dirt. It wasn't directed at anybody, just curious why some photogs seem to feel threatened by an EVF-M. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 10, 2021 Share #159 Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, lct said: It wasn't directed at anybody, just curious why some photogs seem to feel threatened by an EVF-M. I don't think anyone is saying that. The only thing some of us are saying is that we enjoy rangefinder shooting and hope to be able to continue that experience. If Leica is able to produce and support an EVF camera in the M style and mount while at the same time keeping the rangefinder line going, I can see no reason why it would upset or threaten anybody. I haven't interpreted anyone's comments in this thread as leading to that conclusion. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 10, 2021 Share #160 Posted February 10, 2021 I must be becoming paranoid then 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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