Jono Slack Review: Leica SL2-S

[Slender]

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Jono, could you please let Leica know the lens firmware for SL lenses 2.0 doesnt install in our SL2.... 🙄 😭

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[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, lx1713 said:

Thanks, Jono, this is the first post on the forum that I couldn't decide to "like" or "thank" you.☺️😊

Thank You!

I'll take that as a compliment - I have to say that my first intent is to entertain people, then, hopefully to inform them as well.

(ps I couldn't resist the laugh option!)

All the best

Edited December 12, 2020 by jonoslack

[jonoslack]

56 minutes ago, Slender said:

Jono, could you please let Leica know the lens firmware for SL lenses 2.0 doesnt install in our SL2.... 🙄 😭

Hi There

I've PM'd you

best

[cabe]

I also can't update the firmware of my L lenses on SL2, is there any way to do that?

Edited December 12, 2020 by cabe

[scott kirkpatrick]

lens firmware upgrade --  me too.

I finally noticed it in my Leica downloads folder.  I have a copy dated April 2020 and another dated December 2020.  They both say   lens firmware 2.0, and when I check firmware on my SL2 I see camera firmware 2.0 lens firmware 1.0.  When I try to do just the lens firmware upgrade it says I am already at current firmware level.  But I am not.  The linear focus options don't appear.  Could you publish the secret trick, if you have solved this one?

[jonoslack]

21 minutes ago, cabe said:

I also can't update the firmware of my L lenses on SL2, is there any way to do that?

 

14 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

lens firmware upgrade --  me too.

I finally noticed it in my Leica downloads folder.  I have a copy dated April 2020 and another dated December 2020.  They both say   lens firmware 2.0, and when I check firmware on my SL2 I see camera firmware 2.0 lens firmware 1.0.  When I try to do just the lens firmware upgrade it says I am already at current firmware level.  But I am not.  The linear focus options don't appear.  Could you publish the secret trick, if you have solved this one?

This has been noted elsewhere

I've contacted Leica about it - of course, if anyone knows of a trick. . . 

There is actually a separate thread for this - maybe it would be better to move comments there @andy barton?

 

[jonoslack]

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Hi There

Several people have asked me about this, and so it seemed to be worth doing it! 

All the files were originally shot on DNG - the sharpening and noise reduction sliders in Lightroom were all zeroed. The SL2 files were opened in Photoshop and the Image size reduced without any noise reduction help. They were then exported as 100% jpg quality 12 jpg files. I've then done an XY comparison zoomed in to approximately 100% and taken a screen shot. I'll put this on to the Review thread as well, but I thought it was worth putting it up as a separate thread.

As you would expect - downsizing the SL2 images does help with the noise - but even so, at higher ISO there is still at least a stop difference. In each case the SL2-S is on the left. To me this is a little like angels dancing on the heads of pins, and it's also open to methodology questions - and anyway, why would you not use noise reduction?) 

First of all, the Scene:

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100 ISO

400 ISO

1600 ISO

6,400 ISO

12,500 ISO

25,000 ISO

50,000 ISO

Finally 100,000 on the SL2-S and 50,000 on the SL2

[SJH]

Hi Jono - thank you again for another great review, much appreciated by everyone. I bought one of the first SL2’s to arrive last year and I really enjoyed your review of that camera, there any are many strengths to this excellent camera but do you know if they’ve fixed the battery issue that exists in the SL2, with the SL2-S, whereby if you get to about 25-50% battery remaining you get a warning that you cannot use 4K or high FPS with many lenses. I believe Leica are aware of it on the SL2 some 12 months on from release!

This still isn’t fixed on the SL2 so with the SL2-S being even more video centric if this is still an issue it means people cannot necessarily rely on it for events etc?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I would pose that question to the early adopters who are participating in the forum (Jono had to send his SL2S back to Wetzlar).  It's important.  Leica takes a belt and suspenders approach to preventing any problems that high power demand might cause by shutting down with a warning before they happen.  The SL2S is supposed to have better cooling and doesn't have a 30 minute timeout.  So has the warning been set lower?  Of course the best way to get reliable bursts or high bandwidth video is to add external power, and it looks as if this is encouraged in the SL2S, as I read the manual.  We'll see soon enough.

[adli]

Hi Jona,

 

Thanks a lot for the excellent review. Convinced to to cancel my recent order for the SL2 and change it to the SL2-S.  I Use R-lenses a lot so I was mostly looking for the IBIS, 24 MP is fine with me. The improved noice handling at high ISO comes in handy as well.

Arne

 

 

[la1402]

On 12/12/2020 at 6:14 PM, ruskkyle said:

Can anyone verify whether 4K 50p video is cropped to APS-C or full frame?

Also whether this is something that’s likely to change when the Spring Firmware update arrives.

Many thanks.

I must confirm 4k 50p/60p is cropped. 4k30P is full frame. All I have seen is the announcement and that does not state wether they plan to change it.

Edited December 13, 2020 by la1402

[Big John]

Am trying to understand the key ‘speed’ differences between the SL2-S and the SL2 (I have an SL and wondering which will serve me best) - what exactly is driving the ‘speed’ advantage of the SL2-S over the SL2?  Processing engine (Maestro III) and buffer are the same (from what I can tell) so is it a combination of smaller file sizes (from lower res sensor) and the sensor being able to communicate more quickly with the processor?  And is the autofocus quicker than the SL2, if so, can we expect firmware upgrades to the SL2, so the gap closes in spec terms?
 

Thanks. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

You will find this information on pages 226 and 227 of the downloadable manual for the camera.  The 4K All-I codecs  in the firmware now shipping are for 24, 25, and 30 FPS. They are 10 bit 4:2:2, run at 400 MBPS, and can take their image from either the full frame or the APSC frame and output to either the SD or the HDMI channel.  The 50 and 60 FPS 4K codecs are  4:2:0 and 8 bit to the SD card, but 10 bit 4:2:2 to the HDMI recorder.  In FHD, the output runs at 200 MBPS  and can use either full frame or APSC source, sending 8 bit 4:2:0 to either the SD card or the HDMI output.  For 120, 150 and 180 FPS, only APSC input is used.  For output to the HDMI channel, 50 to 60 FPS at 10 bit 4:2:2 is possible, but to the SD card, only 8 bit 4:2:0.

Promised future upgrades (from marketing material) include

   10 bit 4K 50 and 60P internally with HEVC 9H.265) encoding

   Long GOP codecs for 10 bit recording at 150 to 200 P

   Waveforms, color bar test pattern and time code (I thought time code is already available)

   Tally Mode (what's that?)

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

@Big John I was addressing the video specs, in which the SL2S is initially pretty close to the SL2, but with promised updates next year.  It takes a careful reading of the manual, which is written by the developers and has a chance of being correct, while the marketing materials should never be relied on until you can actually try the camera.  The only differences in still imaging speed that the manual asserts are (a) no limit in the number of images that you can push through the buffer and onto the card in continuous mode and (b)  a slight difference in specs for continuous shooting with the mechanical shutter.  "Maestro III" refers to a chip with 4 GB of buffer, an ARM-like processor and lots of I/O channels, developed by Leica with a partner with a design group nearby in Germany.  Running images with half as many bits through the chip should take less time and generate less heat, so that is probably the biggest reason for the SL2S to run faster.  There have been documented problems with hybrid cameras stopping because of overheating (even the SL2, but it is one of the least exposed).  I don't think much more can be done to cool the imaging chip, which is magnetically suspended in the IBIS framework.  But the support circuits, including the Maestro, are on printed circuit boards in thermal contact with the metal body of the camera and perhaps that has been improved.

[MediaFotografie]

Hello Jono,

thank you very much for this review, very interessting!

I‘ve a short comment and a question: SL2 has „only“ 20 fps, not 24, whereas SL2-S has 25; but both are without AF and without metering, not so useful.

The question: you compare DNGs from SL2-S to JPG (OOC?) from SL2, is this right? What‘s the reason not tu uwe DNG in both cases?

Thank you again

 

thomas

[Slender]

I am sure it was both shot on DNG, only that the SL2 images were downscaled to 24mp to match the SL2s output (and therefore the SL2 "regains" more quality, sort of speak).

Topaz Denoise should take things even further... I have recently sold images shot at 12 500 Iso from my SL2, rescaled to 24mp and Topaz Denoised... it is so clean sharp...

Sure, if you can live without the high megapixel output possibilities, want a slightly cheaper body with less aliasing and higher iso performances for video (or in stills with less post production work) then sure, SL2s fits the bill very well.

The 5 fps with AF-C (SL2s) is actually slightly lesser than 6 with AF-C (SL2).... yet all the oxygen is wasted on the nearly useless 25 vs 20ims feature. (with locked focus, white balance and exposure).

That is when you know marketing has taken over...

Like Mr Slack however. I like the idea of "sure can do" with 47mp FF or 20.5mp aps-c (when cropping or using small lenses) or 187mp in multi-shot 😇 and knowing results will be equal (if not superior) in good light. That makes the SL2 still a better option for studio, landscape, all tripod stuff, product shots, macro (wildlife perhaps?).

Tho I would be a bit (very) bitter if the video tweaks (waveform, follow focus, colour bars, viewable LUTs....) do not come available on the "flagship" SL2 at the same time with firmware 3.0.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Slender

[Jeffry Abt]

36 minutes ago, Slender said:

Tho I would be a bit (very) bitter if the video tweaks (waveform, follow focus, colour bars, viewable LUTs....) do not come available on the "flagship" SL2 at the same time with firmware 3.0.

Yes indeed!
 Keep The “flagship”, “The” flagship!

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Slender said:

I am sure it was both shot on DNG, only that the SL2 images were downscaled to 24mp to match the SL2s output (and therefore the SL2 "regains" more quality, sort of speak).

Topaz Denoise should take things even further... I have recently sold images shot at 12 500 Iso from my SL2, rescaled to 24mp and Topaz Denoised... it is so clean sharp...

Sure, if you can live without the high megapixel output possibilities, want a slightly cheaper body with less aliasing and higher iso performances for video (or in stills with less post production work) then sure, SL2s fits the bill very well.

The 5 fps with AF-C (SL2s) is actually slightly lesser than 6 with AF-C (SL2).... yet all the oxygen is wasted on the nearly useless 25 vs 20ims feature. (with locked focus, white balance and exposure).

That is when you know marketing has taken over...

Like Mr Slack however. I like the idea of "sure can do" with 47mp FF or 20.5mp aps-c (when cropping or using small lenses) or 187mp in multi-shot 😇 and knowing results will be equal (if not superior) in good light. That makes the SL2 still a better option for studio, landscape, all tripod stuff, product shots, macro (wildlife perhaps?).

Tho I would be a bit (very) bitter if the video tweaks (waveform, follow focus, colour bars, viewable LUTs....) do not come available on the "flagship" SL2 at the same time with firmware 3.0.

SL2S will only cave out a niche if the drive speed can be in the 15fps on AFC vs the advantage of the more pixel from the SL2. Even taking wildlife with SL2 allows an extended rich to 420mm on the 90-280mm when the SL2’s 20MPx APSC mode is selected. Meaning cropped photos with sufficient MPx becomes available with the limited range of focal length from current L mount range of lenses, especially Leica.

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[LocalHero1953]

Anyone who has bought the SL2-S and has buyers regret for a SL2 should look at my offer to swap in the Classifieds!

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb sillbeers15:

SL2S will only cave out a niche if the drive speed can be in the 15fps on AFC vs the advantage of the more pixel from the SL2. Even taking wildlife with SL2 allows an extended rich to 420mm on the 90-280mm when the SL2’s 20MPx APSC mode is selected. Meaning cropped photos with sufficient MPx becomes available with the limited range of focal length from current L mount range of lenses, especially Leica.

Think SL2S AF twice as fast. There are reviews on YouTube now who say that in continuous shooting the camera hardly misses a shot.