Jono Slack Review: Leica SL2-S

[lx1713]

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On 12/10/2020 at 10:04 PM, jonoslack said:

Leica introduced the SL2 just about a year ago (on November 6th 2019), with what’s been happening since it seems more like 100 years ago!

I was initially rather grumpy about it (and I quote):

The SL still fulfils all my requirements, and I’m still in love with the interface. So why would I want something different, and let’s be honest - how often does one really NEED 47mp. Added to which the strap lugs on the SL2 stick out, and it only has 3 buttons on the back (rather than the 4 on the SL), and they have writing on them!

You can read the rest of the review: https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-sl2.html

I had three SL2 cameras to test spanning the period from January 2019 until September (with a few gaps). In the end I was convinced that the new camera was a real improvement, slowly discovering that I really did ‘need’ 47 mp and I soon bought my own SL2.

Today Leica are introducing the Leica SL2-S, which is certainly the camera I would have wanted back then. The new camera is directed primarily at videographers and photographers who are more interested in speed or file size than they are in high resolution. Photojournalists, Event and wildlife photographers spring to mind. The new ‘stealth’ look with the blackened out Leica points in that direction.

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I only had the SL2-S for a couple of weeks at the end of August and the start of September this year, so this article is based on a relatively short time with the camera. I’m not going to do a detailed write up of the body and design, or of the operation of the camera, as these features are the same as the SL2.

What’s different?

Photography

The SL2-S has a brand new back-lit BSI-CMOS sensor with 24MP of resolution. It is capable of shooting 9 frames per second with the mechanical shutter and 25 using the HS electronic shutter. The SL2 also does 9 fps with the mechanical shutter, but only 24 in HS Mode. As the file sizes are much smaller on the SL2-S and the buffer is the same 4GB, this means that you can shoot many more shots in a burst (largely controlled by the speed of the SD card). I didn’t have a very fast SD card to test, but Leica claim that you can carry on shooting at 9 fps (mechanical shutter) pretty much until the card is full.

There will be a firmware upgrade in the first part of 2021 which will have improved AF Eye Detection will be coming a little later There will also be a transparent ‘overlay’ function so you can perfectly repeat the alignment of the previous image (hopefully it will come to the SL2 later on).

Videography

Here the changes are more notable The Leica SL2-S shoots 10-bit 4:2:2 video with Leica’s L-LOG gamma at frame rates up to 60fps. Unlike the SL2 there is no limit to recording time with the new camera (beyond that imposed by internal or external memory).

The new firmware will allow segmenting video into 1 minute chunks (to avoid data loss). It will also allow internal 10 bit 4K/60p and 50p with HEVC video compression and have an individual Viewing-LUT upload function.

There will also be an integrated waveform monitor and automatic follow focus.

The Price

The SL2-S will be €1500 cheaper than the SL2 (€4500 as opposed to €5990) at the time of writing I don’t have UK or US prices.

The Paint

The only visible difference is the stealthy black writing on the front of the camera (perhaps Leica should have blacked out the red dot as well). In fact the writing is in gloss paint, but the body in matt (like the SL2)

What’s the same

Apart from the sensor and the price, pretty much everything is the same, same body, same processor with the same buffer and the same shot to shot times. The same weather sealing and image stabilisation. The same 5.76 million dot EVF with 0.78x magnification and the same 2,1 million dot LCD display.

High ISO

Sadly I’m not qualified to test or write about the camera’s video features so I’ll stick to discussing the image quality of the new sensor. In the limited time I had it seemed most relevant to check out the high ISO characteristics of the new sensor. To that end I set up my trusty tripod in our rather dark sitting room to take some images of books. Here is the scene:

This was shot with incident daylight seeping through a north facing window - difficult lighting conditions indeed.

The SL2-S goes up to 100,000 ISO, but rather than leave the other side blank I’ve compared it with 50,000 ISO on the SL2:

The SL2-S was so obviously much better at 100,000 than the SL2 at 50 I’ve done another comparison with the SL2 at 25,000 ISO. Here perhaps the extra resolution gives the SL2 the edge, however, even at 25,000 ISO there is some minor banding on the SL2, more at least than there is in the SL2-S at 100,000.

 

This is an impressive improvement, closer to two stops than to one, and something that street and low light shooters are going to appreciate. Even if you would want to avoid 100,000 ISO, 25,000 is really pretty good.

What’s in a name

So, what does the S in SL2-S stand for? I’m afraid we aren’t going to get a definitive answer to that, it could be Speed or Sensitivity, or perhaps even Stealth or Small (file size), or all of the above. I’ve asked the question of those who ought to know and they aren’t telling!

Shooting with M lenses

Of course the main purpose of the camera is for fast AF and video, but I know that quite a lot of people are going to be interested in how well it does with M lenses. Sadly I didn’t have time to do any very careful comparisons of corner definition and vignetting with the SL2, but the general impression was that the SL2-S was at least as good and probably better.

However focusing was better on the SL2-S, especially when zooming in on the EVF (which has a slight visual susurration on the SL2) it also seemed that nailing focus generally was easier on the newer camera. This might be because of the lower resolution, but whatever the cause it was tangible. I have established that the SL2 and SL2-S have the same sensor stack. It would be nice to do a proper comparison, but not having a camera I’m going to have to leave that up to others!

Who is it for?

Well, as Leica say in their press release:

“The SL2-S is the perfect choice for customers who favour fast operation over the exceptionally high resolution of the Leica SL2”

But I think it’s going to appeal to a wider audience than that, especially at the considerably reduced price point. I think the very good high ISO, together with fast AF (and eye focus in the spring) is going to make the camera very popular with all kind of wedding and event photographers, especially with the ability to mix and match Leica, Panasonic and Sigma lenses (there really are a lot of L mount lenses around). If you’re going to shoot 2,000 shots at a wedding, you really don’t want them to be 85mb per shot (40 is bad enough!). Added to that you really don’t need the resolution.

More than that, quite a lot of people are already using the SL2 with M lenses, and I think a lot more will find the SL2-S even more attractive. I’ve heard from many saying that they really don’t want 48mp, mainly because of the storage requirements, but also for the heavier processing load.

The new fast M lenses (90 Summilux, 75 Noctilux, 50 Noctilux) all handle better on an SL body and for many people focusing on an EVF based camera is simpler than using a rangefinder, the SL2-S is less challenging to focus with M lenses has a better magnification experience.

Conclusion

The Leica SL2-S has much improved video, with better things promised with firmware upgrades in the near future.

It is also a fine stills camera, allowing really fast shot to shot times and extremely good high ISO. It’s great to focus with M lenses and produces excellent image quality. For many people 24mp is still the sweet spot for resolution.

Added to all of this it’s considerably cheaper than the SL2, so it’s likely to attract new Leica users.

Once again Leica have produced a sensible and interesting camera which is going to appeal to a lot of different users, both old and new.

Sample Images Leica SL2-S

Thanks, Jono, this is the first post on the forum that I couldn't decide to "like" or "thank" you.☺️😊

[ruskkyle]

Can anyone verify whether 4K 50p video is cropped to APS-C or full frame?

Also whether this is something that’s likely to change when the Spring Firmware update arrives.

Many thanks.

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[verwackelt]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

Looks like it has better details than the Panasonic. But what about the Moire?

Should give a try to C1.
I find the moireefilter good…

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

Looks like it has better details than the Panasonic. But what about the Moire?

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Not as pronounced as they show with LUF compression above. That's why I include a link to less compressed JPEGs: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VRrRQh/ in the posts. It can be dealt with in LR or Photoshop.

[Slender]

Jono, could you please let Leica know the lens firmware for SL lenses 2.0 doesnt install in our SL2.... 🙄 😭

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, lx1713 said:

Thanks, Jono, this is the first post on the forum that I couldn't decide to "like" or "thank" you.☺️😊

Thank You!

I'll take that as a compliment - I have to say that my first intent is to entertain people, then, hopefully to inform them as well.

(ps I couldn't resist the laugh option!)

All the best

Edited December 12, 2020 by jonoslack

[jonoslack]

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56 minutes ago, Slender said:

Jono, could you please let Leica know the lens firmware for SL lenses 2.0 doesnt install in our SL2.... 🙄 😭

Hi There

I've PM'd you

best

[cabe]

I also can't update the firmware of my L lenses on SL2, is there any way to do that?

Edited December 12, 2020 by cabe

[scott kirkpatrick]

lens firmware upgrade --  me too.

I finally noticed it in my Leica downloads folder.  I have a copy dated April 2020 and another dated December 2020.  They both say   lens firmware 2.0, and when I check firmware on my SL2 I see camera firmware 2.0 lens firmware 1.0.  When I try to do just the lens firmware upgrade it says I am already at current firmware level.  But I am not.  The linear focus options don't appear.  Could you publish the secret trick, if you have solved this one?

[jonoslack]

21 minutes ago, cabe said:

I also can't update the firmware of my L lenses on SL2, is there any way to do that?

 

14 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

lens firmware upgrade --  me too.

I finally noticed it in my Leica downloads folder.  I have a copy dated April 2020 and another dated December 2020.  They both say   lens firmware 2.0, and when I check firmware on my SL2 I see camera firmware 2.0 lens firmware 1.0.  When I try to do just the lens firmware upgrade it says I am already at current firmware level.  But I am not.  The linear focus options don't appear.  Could you publish the secret trick, if you have solved this one?

This has been noted elsewhere

I've contacted Leica about it - of course, if anyone knows of a trick. . . 

There is actually a separate thread for this - maybe it would be better to move comments there @andy barton?

 

[jonoslack]

Hi There

Several people have asked me about this, and so it seemed to be worth doing it! 

All the files were originally shot on DNG - the sharpening and noise reduction sliders in Lightroom were all zeroed. The SL2 files were opened in Photoshop and the Image size reduced without any noise reduction help. They were then exported as 100% jpg quality 12 jpg files. I've then done an XY comparison zoomed in to approximately 100% and taken a screen shot. I'll put this on to the Review thread as well, but I thought it was worth putting it up as a separate thread.

As you would expect - downsizing the SL2 images does help with the noise - but even so, at higher ISO there is still at least a stop difference. In each case the SL2-S is on the left. To me this is a little like angels dancing on the heads of pins, and it's also open to methodology questions - and anyway, why would you not use noise reduction?) 

First of all, the Scene:

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100 ISO

400 ISO

1600 ISO

6,400 ISO

12,500 ISO

25,000 ISO

50,000 ISO

Finally 100,000 on the SL2-S and 50,000 on the SL2

[SJH]

Hi Jono - thank you again for another great review, much appreciated by everyone. I bought one of the first SL2’s to arrive last year and I really enjoyed your review of that camera, there any are many strengths to this excellent camera but do you know if they’ve fixed the battery issue that exists in the SL2, with the SL2-S, whereby if you get to about 25-50% battery remaining you get a warning that you cannot use 4K or high FPS with many lenses. I believe Leica are aware of it on the SL2 some 12 months on from release!

This still isn’t fixed on the SL2 so with the SL2-S being even more video centric if this is still an issue it means people cannot necessarily rely on it for events etc?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I would pose that question to the early adopters who are participating in the forum (Jono had to send his SL2S back to Wetzlar).  It's important.  Leica takes a belt and suspenders approach to preventing any problems that high power demand might cause by shutting down with a warning before they happen.  The SL2S is supposed to have better cooling and doesn't have a 30 minute timeout.  So has the warning been set lower?  Of course the best way to get reliable bursts or high bandwidth video is to add external power, and it looks as if this is encouraged in the SL2S, as I read the manual.  We'll see soon enough.

[adli]

Hi Jona,

 

Thanks a lot for the excellent review. Convinced to to cancel my recent order for the SL2 and change it to the SL2-S.  I Use R-lenses a lot so I was mostly looking for the IBIS, 24 MP is fine with me. The improved noice handling at high ISO comes in handy as well.

Arne

 

 

[la1402]

On 12/12/2020 at 6:14 PM, ruskkyle said:

Can anyone verify whether 4K 50p video is cropped to APS-C or full frame?

Also whether this is something that’s likely to change when the Spring Firmware update arrives.

Many thanks.

I must confirm 4k 50p/60p is cropped. 4k30P is full frame. All I have seen is the announcement and that does not state wether they plan to change it.

Edited December 13, 2020 by la1402

[Big John]

Am trying to understand the key ‘speed’ differences between the SL2-S and the SL2 (I have an SL and wondering which will serve me best) - what exactly is driving the ‘speed’ advantage of the SL2-S over the SL2?  Processing engine (Maestro III) and buffer are the same (from what I can tell) so is it a combination of smaller file sizes (from lower res sensor) and the sensor being able to communicate more quickly with the processor?  And is the autofocus quicker than the SL2, if so, can we expect firmware upgrades to the SL2, so the gap closes in spec terms?
 

Thanks. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

You will find this information on pages 226 and 227 of the downloadable manual for the camera.  The 4K All-I codecs  in the firmware now shipping are for 24, 25, and 30 FPS. They are 10 bit 4:2:2, run at 400 MBPS, and can take their image from either the full frame or the APSC frame and output to either the SD or the HDMI channel.  The 50 and 60 FPS 4K codecs are  4:2:0 and 8 bit to the SD card, but 10 bit 4:2:2 to the HDMI recorder.  In FHD, the output runs at 200 MBPS  and can use either full frame or APSC source, sending 8 bit 4:2:0 to either the SD card or the HDMI output.  For 120, 150 and 180 FPS, only APSC input is used.  For output to the HDMI channel, 50 to 60 FPS at 10 bit 4:2:2 is possible, but to the SD card, only 8 bit 4:2:0.

Promised future upgrades (from marketing material) include

   10 bit 4K 50 and 60P internally with HEVC 9H.265) encoding

   Long GOP codecs for 10 bit recording at 150 to 200 P

   Waveforms, color bar test pattern and time code (I thought time code is already available)

   Tally Mode (what's that?)

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[Steven]

1 minute ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Tally Mode (what's that?)

A red light to let you know the camera is recording, I think 

[scott kirkpatrick]

@Big John I was addressing the video specs, in which the SL2S is initially pretty close to the SL2, but with promised updates next year.  It takes a careful reading of the manual, which is written by the developers and has a chance of being correct, while the marketing materials should never be relied on until you can actually try the camera.  The only differences in still imaging speed that the manual asserts are (a) no limit in the number of images that you can push through the buffer and onto the card in continuous mode and (b)  a slight difference in specs for continuous shooting with the mechanical shutter.  "Maestro III" refers to a chip with 4 GB of buffer, an ARM-like processor and lots of I/O channels, developed by Leica with a partner with a design group nearby in Germany.  Running images with half as many bits through the chip should take less time and generate less heat, so that is probably the biggest reason for the SL2S to run faster.  There have been documented problems with hybrid cameras stopping because of overheating (even the SL2, but it is one of the least exposed).  I don't think much more can be done to cool the imaging chip, which is magnetically suspended in the IBIS framework.  But the support circuits, including the Maestro, are on printed circuit boards in thermal contact with the metal body of the camera and perhaps that has been improved.

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[MediaFotografie]

Hello Jono,

thank you very much for this review, very interessting!

I‘ve a short comment and a question: SL2 has „only“ 20 fps, not 24, whereas SL2-S has 25; but both are without AF and without metering, not so useful.

The question: you compare DNGs from SL2-S to JPG (OOC?) from SL2, is this right? What‘s the reason not tu uwe DNG in both cases?

Thank you again

 

thomas