Popular Post jonoslack Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share #1 Posted July 16, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) More: Leica M10-R | Technical Data | Video Interview Introduction The lifecycle of Leica M cameras has led us to expect a Monochrom at the end of the line, and we have had it, the surprising and wonderful M10M which was released in January this year (Leica M10 Monochrom Review). So, we’ve had the wonderful M10, the premium M10-P the minimalist M10-D, and the 40mp M10-M, now we have to wait for the announcement of the M11 right? Wrong! It doesn’t require sixth sense to realise that if Leica can make a 40MP Monochrom sensor, then they can make a colour sensor at that resolution as well, and of course they have, so let’s welcome the M10-R, or should we welcome it? Let’s face it, the 24 mp of the Leica M10 is really quite enough for almost any photographic project, be it a brochure or a billboard. I’m going to have a look at whether the extra resolution is worth it, and also at differences in character and performance between the existing M10 sensor (in all the other colour M10 variant cameras) and the new sensor, and there really are differences. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The Camera The camera itself looks like the original M10, it has none of the M10-P engravings and it has a normal red dot rather than the screw. Indeed it is only the sensor which has changed, However, the motherboard, buffer, processor, menus etc. are identical to the M10-P. Leica have already maxed out the buffer size for the processor, so there isn’t a larger buffer, and of course the larger files mean that the camera is a little slower processing, and that the buffer is effectively smaller. Having said this, I never lost a shot, and I’m not seeing many complaints from M10-M users about the speed. The Shutter The shutter is the quiet version from the M10-p which has been extremely popular with many people. In common with some fashion and portrait photographers I prefer the slightly louder M10 shutter as I like my subjects to know when I’ve taken a picture, it makes a good way to control the flow of a shoot. The perfect situation would be a ‘normal’ shutter sound like the M10 with the option of a silent electronic shutter, but I understand that the read-out speed of the M10 sensor is too slow for this. I’ve shot wedding ceremonies from close up with the original M10 and never disturbed anyone with the noise. Personally I prefer the sound of the quieter shutter, but it imposes limitations on shooting which the original M10 did not. The Resolution So the exchange is that you get more resolution and a different sensor in return for a moderate decrease in shot to shot speed and buffer depth, is it worth it? Absolutely Yes! That was certainly my first response, and after nearly a year with the camera it still is. Maybe a little explanation. I have been really happy with 24mp, it seemed to me to be the sweet spot (and I know I’m not alone); quite enough for a sensible amount of cropping, big enough for decent sized prints, fast processing and reasonable storage requirements. Testing the Q2 slightly modified my opinion, it was great to get the higher resolution for the crop factors, but hey, I didn’t want an APS/c or µ43 Leica I like full frame! I think that this is why, in the final analysis, I decided not to buy a Q or a Q2 - lovely to have a compact, full frame 28mm camera, but the crop factors were not so attractive and I often like to shoot at 50 and 75mm. Using the SL2 and the M10-R has really convinced me of the value of extra resolution - it’s nice to have it for printing, it’s also nice to have it for cropping (if you need to), it also encourages you to default to a slightly wider angle lens, in the knowledge that if you really do need to you can crop it later on. I tend to carry one less lens in my bag as a result of it. It’s also wonderful for landscapes with lots of detail. I have used the M10-R with the following lenses: Apo-Summicron M f2 50mm Apo-Summicron M f2 75mm Macro Elmarit R f2.8 60mm Noctilux M f1.2 Noctilux 50mm (thanks for the loan- you know who you are!) Summaron M f5.6 28mm (modern version) Summicron M f2 28 Asph Summilux M f1.4 28 Asph Summilux M f1.4 35 Asph Summilux M f1.4 50 Asph Tri-Elmar M 16/18/21 Asph All these lenses worked really well with the camera and I haven’t seen any evidence of them being challenged by the extra resolution. Vignetting Rather like the M10-M the M10-R shows more vignetting than previous digital M cameras, but shooting portraits (or still life or close up) wide open this can be a positive advantage, and if you’re shooting landscapes, then you will probably have stopped down enough to make the vignetting insignificant. It seems to be more noticeable with wide angle lenses (as you would expect). If it’s undesirable, then it’s easy to fix in post processing, but with the risk of creating more noise in the corners. Sean Reid is going to look at this in more detail with specific lenses if it’s something likely to cause you concern. High ISO I’ve done a lot of ISO comparisons between the M10 and the M10-R. This is made more complicated by the difference in resolution, making it hard to do a proper comparison. My feeling is that looking at the M10-R files at 100% the noise is roughly equivalent to the M10 at 100%, considering the difference in resolution I think that probably works out at a 1 stop improvement, also worth mentioning that the noise on the M10-R feels more organic and less regular. But then the high ISO on the M10 is pretty good, and you might expect that increasing the resolution would make the noise worse rather than better. So this is a real improvement for the new sensor and I’ve been quite happy to shoot at 12,500 ISO Dynamic Range The base ISO for the M10 was not 100 ISO, but something like 160 ISO. There is also an issue with ugly roll-off on over exposed areas, this is worse at 100 ISO (pull), I wrote about this here: Leica M10 Highlights.. Leica changed the base ISO for Auto ISO to 200, this was rather a masterful move, as it meant that people wouldn’t accidentally get ‘blown’ highlights, whilst still allowing use of 100 ISO where it was appropriate. My feeling is that however, good this was, you still have to be very careful of losing information in highlights with the 24mp M10 sensor at any ISO. The base ISO for the M10-R actually is 100 ISO, but more to the point, For the M10-R Leica have completely solved the problem with over-exposed highlights. With the M10 even a quarter of a stop of overexposure would irredeemably blow highlights. In the same scene with the M10-R I’ve managed to gain good detail from an image over-exposed by 2 stops. At first sight, the files from the M10-R may look a little flatter than those from the M10 straight out of the camera, but they are much nicer to work with in post processing, and there seems to be more scope for pulling detail out of the shadows as well as the headroom with the highlights. Whether the M10-R actually has more dynamic range will probably be established in a DXO report. But from a practical photographic point of view the files are a real step forward and much easier to post process. Conclusion So, It’s an M10 with a bigger sensor, a quieter shutter and an effectively smaller buffer in a discreet ‘no frills’ body. Put like that doesn’t sound too exciting. However, the sensor in the M10-R isn’t just bigger, it’s much better than the sensor in all the other colour M10 variants. It has better high ISO, more Dynamic Range, nicer noise characteristics and the raw files are much nicer to work with in post processing, in practice the slightly slower shot to shot times and smaller buffer didn’t cause me any problems (and experiences with the M10-M suggests that it doesn’t cause others problems either). Generally speaking I get the first iteration of each new M camera and miss out the P and M variants, and so far that’s happened (although I still rather hanker after an M10-D). This time it’s different, and I’m saving up my pennies to grab myself an M10-R as soon as they start shipping. This is a real photographers camera - in my opinion it has the best image quality of any M camera ever made, and it’s a pleasure to use. It’s hard to see how Leica can really improve on it without making radical changes in the M11, we shall see! 39 20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The Camera The camera itself looks like the original M10, it has none of the M10-P engravings and it has a normal red dot rather than the screw. Indeed it is only the sensor which has changed, However, the motherboard, buffer, processor, menus etc. are identical to the M10-P. Leica have already maxed out the buffer size for the processor, so there isn’t a larger buffer, and of course the larger files mean that the camera is a little slower processing, and that the buffer is effectively smaller. Having said this, I never lost a shot, and I’m not seeing many complaints from M10-M users about the speed. The Shutter The shutter is the quiet version from the M10-p which has been extremely popular with many people. In common with some fashion and portrait photographers I prefer the slightly louder M10 shutter as I like my subjects to know when I’ve taken a picture, it makes a good way to control the flow of a shoot. The perfect situation would be a ‘normal’ shutter sound like the M10 with the option of a silent electronic shutter, but I understand that the read-out speed of the M10 sensor is too slow for this. I’ve shot wedding ceremonies from close up with the original M10 and never disturbed anyone with the noise. Personally I prefer the sound of the quieter shutter, but it imposes limitations on shooting which the original M10 did not. The Resolution So the exchange is that you get more resolution and a different sensor in return for a moderate decrease in shot to shot speed and buffer depth, is it worth it? Absolutely Yes! That was certainly my first response, and after nearly a year with the camera it still is. Maybe a little explanation. I have been really happy with 24mp, it seemed to me to be the sweet spot (and I know I’m not alone); quite enough for a sensible amount of cropping, big enough for decent sized prints, fast processing and reasonable storage requirements. Testing the Q2 slightly modified my opinion, it was great to get the higher resolution for the crop factors, but hey, I didn’t want an APS/c or µ43 Leica I like full frame! I think that this is why, in the final analysis, I decided not to buy a Q or a Q2 - lovely to have a compact, full frame 28mm camera, but the crop factors were not so attractive and I often like to shoot at 50 and 75mm. Using the SL2 and the M10-R has really convinced me of the value of extra resolution - it’s nice to have it for printing, it’s also nice to have it for cropping (if you need to), it also encourages you to default to a slightly wider angle lens, in the knowledge that if you really do need to you can crop it later on. I tend to carry one less lens in my bag as a result of it. It’s also wonderful for landscapes with lots of detail. I have used the M10-R with the following lenses: Apo-Summicron M f2 50mm Apo-Summicron M f2 75mm Macro Elmarit R f2.8 60mm Noctilux M f1.2 Noctilux 50mm (thanks for the loan- you know who you are!) Summaron M f5.6 28mm (modern version) Summicron M f2 28 Asph Summilux M f1.4 28 Asph Summilux M f1.4 35 Asph Summilux M f1.4 50 Asph Tri-Elmar M 16/18/21 Asph All these lenses worked really well with the camera and I haven’t seen any evidence of them being challenged by the extra resolution. Vignetting Rather like the M10-M the M10-R shows more vignetting than previous digital M cameras, but shooting portraits (or still life or close up) wide open this can be a positive advantage, and if you’re shooting landscapes, then you will probably have stopped down enough to make the vignetting insignificant. It seems to be more noticeable with wide angle lenses (as you would expect). If it’s undesirable, then it’s easy to fix in post processing, but with the risk of creating more noise in the corners. Sean Reid is going to look at this in more detail with specific lenses if it’s something likely to cause you concern. High ISO I’ve done a lot of ISO comparisons between the M10 and the M10-R. This is made more complicated by the difference in resolution, making it hard to do a proper comparison. My feeling is that looking at the M10-R files at 100% the noise is roughly equivalent to the M10 at 100%, considering the difference in resolution I think that probably works out at a 1 stop improvement, also worth mentioning that the noise on the M10-R feels more organic and less regular. But then the high ISO on the M10 is pretty good, and you might expect that increasing the resolution would make the noise worse rather than better. So this is a real improvement for the new sensor and I’ve been quite happy to shoot at 12,500 ISO Dynamic Range The base ISO for the M10 was not 100 ISO, but something like 160 ISO. There is also an issue with ugly roll-off on over exposed areas, this is worse at 100 ISO (pull), I wrote about this here: Leica M10 Highlights.. Leica changed the base ISO for Auto ISO to 200, this was rather a masterful move, as it meant that people wouldn’t accidentally get ‘blown’ highlights, whilst still allowing use of 100 ISO where it was appropriate. My feeling is that however, good this was, you still have to be very careful of losing information in highlights with the 24mp M10 sensor at any ISO. The base ISO for the M10-R actually is 100 ISO, but more to the point, For the M10-R Leica have completely solved the problem with over-exposed highlights. With the M10 even a quarter of a stop of overexposure would irredeemably blow highlights. In the same scene with the M10-R I’ve managed to gain good detail from an image over-exposed by 2 stops. At first sight, the files from the M10-R may look a little flatter than those from the M10 straight out of the camera, but they are much nicer to work with in post processing, and there seems to be more scope for pulling detail out of the shadows as well as the headroom with the highlights. Whether the M10-R actually has more dynamic range will probably be established in a DXO report. But from a practical photographic point of view the files are a real step forward and much easier to post process. Conclusion So, It’s an M10 with a bigger sensor, a quieter shutter and an effectively smaller buffer in a discreet ‘no frills’ body. Put like that doesn’t sound too exciting. However, the sensor in the M10-R isn’t just bigger, it’s much better than the sensor in all the other colour M10 variants. It has better high ISO, more Dynamic Range, nicer noise characteristics and the raw files are much nicer to work with in post processing, in practice the slightly slower shot to shot times and smaller buffer didn’t cause me any problems (and experiences with the M10-M suggests that it doesn’t cause others problems either). Generally speaking I get the first iteration of each new M camera and miss out the P and M variants, and so far that’s happened (although I still rather hanker after an M10-D). This time it’s different, and I’m saving up my pennies to grab myself an M10-R as soon as they start shipping. This is a real photographers camera - in my opinion it has the best image quality of any M camera ever made, and it’s a pleasure to use. It’s hard to see how Leica can really improve on it without making radical changes in the M11, we shall see! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311399-leica-m10-r-review-by-jonathan-slack/?do=findComment&comment=4009596'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 Hi jonoslack, Take a look here Leica M10-R: Review by Jonathan Slack. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rivi1969 Posted July 16, 2020 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2020 As always a great article Jono, I would only say that the sensor is not ”bigger” than the M10’s, it has more resolution but still is the same size 👍🏼 Thanks for sharing. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted July 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, rivi1969 said: As always a great article Jono, I would only say that the sensor is not ”bigger” than the M10’s, it has more resolution but still is the same size 👍🏼 Thanks for sharing. Indeed - of course you're correct! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted July 16, 2020 Share #4 Posted July 16, 2020 Very interesting Jono! To me the dynamich range seems really exciting! Thanks, Lex 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yggdra.omega Posted July 16, 2020 Share #5 Posted July 16, 2020 Thank you for your insight Jono, I love reading your reviews and value your input. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yggdra.omega Posted July 16, 2020 Share #6 Posted July 16, 2020 @jonoslack I did have an additional question....can you confirm if the M10-R has the spirit level that was present in the M10-P? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted July 16, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 minute ago, yggdra.omega said: @jonoslack I did have an additional question....can you confirm if the M10-R has the spirit level that was present in the M10-P? Hi There - I'm quite sure that it does 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted July 16, 2020 Share #8 Posted July 16, 2020 improved blown highlights two stops? Impressive. 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 16, 2020 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2020 Hi Jono, You say "in my opinion it has the best image quality of any M camera ever made", does this include the M10-M I wonder, does this new camera offer better IQ for B&W conversions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 16, 2020 Share #10 Posted July 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, rivi1969 said: As always a great article Jono, I would only say that the sensor is not ”bigger” than the M10’s, it has more resolution but still is the same size 👍🏼 Thanks for sharing. +1. A pet peeve of mine. But thanks, as usual, Jono. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted July 16, 2020 Share #11 Posted July 16, 2020 Great images and write up Jono, a real pleasure after the launch video which was gruelling to watch. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosophos Posted July 16, 2020 Share #12 Posted July 16, 2020 Jono, I always look at your reports to view the images taken with each camera you've been field testing. I find the photos made by actual photographers tell me more than the specifications and marketing speak. Now that the M10-R has been officially released and I’ve had a chance to view your sample images, it looks like significant improvements were made in image quality. As always, thank you for your contributions. Peter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted July 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, earleygallery said: Hi Jono, You say "in my opinion it has the best image quality of any M camera ever made", does this include the M10-M I wonder, does this new camera offer better IQ for B&W conversions? Well, that's an interesting point, I guess that the resolution is better with the M10-M, but I like colour myself (why I said in my opinion). Certainly I prefer to do conversions from colour 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 16, 2020 Share #14 Posted July 16, 2020 Jono, for comparison, what max ISO did you deem ‘comfortable’ shooting with the M10 (to the same degree as 12,500 with the M10-R)?Likewise, for b&w conversions, how would you compare max ISO personal comfort compared to the M10 Monochrom? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 16, 2020 Share #15 Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks Jono! Improved control of highlights is a big plus in my book. One has to be quite careful with previous M's, as well as SL/SL2, in order to avoid (too) digital-looking highlights. At least for my liking. It's good to see an improvement here, as is also seen in S3, the latter not too surprising since M10R and S3 share sensor architecture and processing (as far as I understand it). Goodie...! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon_dragon Posted July 16, 2020 Share #16 Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) I'm glad that the increased resolution doesn't obsolete my lenses. I'm using the 50/2 Summicron (fairly late version but not the super expensive new 50) and the 35/2 ASPH. I also have the 90/4 Elmar but hardly ever use it and even more so for the 135/2.8 goggles lens. I'm tempted to buy a 24 but probably wouldn't use it that much. The M10 compared to the M9 has been mostly a wonderful benefit in low ISO but it's a great camera in all ways for me. Very nice review thanks! Edited July 16, 2020 by carbon_dragon 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelmer Posted July 16, 2020 Share #17 Posted July 16, 2020 Key points highlighted, excellent summary review, like usual 😃 Thanks 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 16, 2020 Share #18 Posted July 16, 2020 Another question, Jono. Did you need to adjust your shooting habits at all due to the higher resolution, e.g., to avoid camera shake? There has been much debate here as to whether that’s a real issue in the first place, depending on viewing magnification, subject matter, etc. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted July 16, 2020 Share #19 Posted July 16, 2020 As always, thanks for the write up, Jono. Truth be told this is perhaps the first time in a long time that I could have perhaps written a review without ever having touched the camera and got it at least 95% correct. All seems as expected given the M10M and frankly thats not a bad thing. Hope to have one soon. Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted July 16, 2020 Share #20 Posted July 16, 2020 Awesome review! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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