Leica M10-R: New M-Flagship with 41 MP Sensor

[jonoslack]

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4 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

 

I need to add that where many of us have expressed thanks for your reviews, I've failed in the past to express my personal gratitude for the feedback you have supplied to Leica over the years. To you, and the unseen others involved in field testing this camera, Bravo! I'm sure your collective contributions have helped to mold this spectacular result. I genuinely hope you take great joy and pride in that.  Others may quite rightly have a contrary view, but for me, this is indeed a very, very special M. I'm quite looking forward to getting out and shooting with it more seriously in the coming days. 

 

Thank You! There are two real motivations for doing it (for me). The first is that it's really impossible to resist the temptation to test a new camera . . not so much a GAS issue as an intellectual challenge, and a stimulation to try and take pictures good enough to carry one's arguments . . . the second motivation is kind words from people who read the articles (and sometimes even unkind words!). Lots of people have said nice things about this review, and it certainly makes the hard work seem worthwhile. Thank You!

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[stephan54]

Which software can handle the raw files?

Edited July 21, 2020 by stephan54

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, stephan54 said:

Which software can handle the raw files?

Adobe's software is the only one that already has full support for M10-R. Some have reported good results with C1 as well, although M10-R is not officially supported yet.

[digbyhp]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:11 AM, Malvolio said:

The case is very different here in Australia - for reasons best left to Leica to explain, the cost of the M10R here is $13500AUD whereas the M10 is still available for just under $10,000AUD.

 

Can someone explain to me the price difference in Australia whereas in the US it appears the M10R is only a slight premium (hundreds of dollars) over the M10?

Ditto - the $ difference in Australia is huge. From a marketing perspective it also seems extraordinary in such an economic climate, so presumably Leica do not feel their target customer group would have had their disposable income impacted. It may have been wiser to bring the M10-R in at roughly the same price as the M10, then reduce the M10.

[Guest]

This thread is like witnessing a weird cult of sycophantic  followers to some imaginary god.

Shock horror leica get near to other companies and their own [Q2] megapixel count so lets all go crazy.

By all means buy if can afford it and want it but ease back on the hype maybe?

[Malvolio]

Its pretty deflating to see such a huge price hike here in Australia as I ve said earlier in the thread. I have owned each of the Digi M bodies including the M10 with a trade in for each successive body. The trade in now (changeover) cost is simply too high to justify and the feature set, apart from the ability to "print bigger and crop at will" doesn't speak to me. I will stay put but I wish Leica would maybe try and think about getting these cameras into the hands of more people rather than pricing them out of reach

[Chaemono]

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb steve 1959:

This thread is like witnessing a weird cult of sycophantic  followers to some imaginary god.

I worship the 75 Noctilux-M.

[NZDavid]

5 hours ago, digbyhp said:

Ditto - the $ difference in Australia is huge. From a marketing perspective it also seems extraordinary in such an economic climate, so presumably Leica do not feel their target customer group would have had their disposable income impacted. It may have been wiser to bring the M10-R in at roughly the same price as the M10, then reduce the M10.

Same in NZ, the differential over the regular M10 is massive -- much more than in Europe, as mentioned above. Why the huge discrepancy? It makes no sense. Oh well, I am very happy with the M10 and I am sure prices for new models will fall to more realistic levels in a few years' time.

[sincurves]

Tested it yesterday and liked it a lot. I think the attention given to increase in pixelcount somewhat shades the other improvements like handling of highlights. Files resemble mediumformat in a way I have never seen from a 35mm system. Well done.

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[Dr No]

8 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

This thread is like witnessing a weird cult of sycophantic  followers to some imaginary god.

Shock horror leica get near to other companies and their own [Q2] megapixel count so lets all go crazy.

By all means buy if can afford it and want it but ease back on the hype maybe?

This camera has been almost a decade coming and Leica has received an endless tirade of criticism for that.

I have not read much hype, just excitement over actual gains and developments that some thought would never happen. Credit where credit is due.

For me, this makes the M my dream camera and I can use what I think are the best lenses in the world on it. If this were the case for you I'm sure you would also be happy.

It also comes at a time when many were discussing the end of the road, the shelving of the M. Clearly not the case.

If you would rather read Leica bashing go to every other forum and photography site where you can read to your heart's content.

[Dr No]

5 hours ago, Chaemono said:

I worship the 75 Noctilux-M.

My altar is made of a Pentagrams with points formed of 75 Noctilux, 50 Noctilux, 90 Summilux, 35 AA Summilux and 50mm APO-Summicron.

Daily, I drip the salty tears of Canon, Nikon and Sony users onto an original print of Cartier Bresson's St. Tropez chicken and it comes to life.

The Leica-Chicken-M gives me powers that mere mortals can only dream of.

[M11 for me]

Am 20.7.2020 um 08:53 schrieb NZDavid:

 

In New Zealand, The M10-R  is listed at a mouth-watering NZD15,490 while the M10 is listed at NZD11,990 — a stunning NZD3,500 (€2,002) more for the higher resolution sensor.

Cheaper to buy in Europe. Andreas’s initial post says the M10-R will sell for €7,990 and the M10 for €6,850 — a difference of €1,140. Yes, that’s still a big premium but less than you’d pay elsewhere. Why the variation, I wonder?

And does at the new sensor really justify the hefty price tag? Whether it’s worth it, of course, is up to the buyer.

 

Shouldn't you compare the prices of the P to the R not the basic M10 which has no new shutter nor tough screen . . . The R is actually the P (some differences in the body as we read) with the new sensor.

I just looked at the Swiss prices: P and R have same price and 10% higher than basic M10. So you are fully free to choose 24 or 40 Mpix. I am sure that the R wins the race against the P. If I would stand at the counter and had to choose I would go to the safe side. No doubt. For me things like buffer or speed are of no importance. If speed is needed I never take the M anyway.

[budjames]

I'm waiting for mine to arrive from Leica SoHo, NYC store.

Regards,
Bud James

[Probus5002]

As a happy amateur M10P owner, I can't justify buying the M10R for the new sensor but I would not criticise anyone who is excited with Leica's latest release.  And genuine enthusiasm is not sycophancy.  Most of us here love the M system.   Leica's product development since the M8 has been remarkable.  Relative to the price of the M10P,  Leica's pricing for the M10R has been very fair in my opinion.  The next debate must be the timing and development of the M11.  The M10R will give Leica an extra year or so over the past product cycles for that development.  At the end of the day, the Leica body is merely a Leica lens carrying device.  

[geoffreyg]

Been a Leica fan for years - more for their sheer awareness of how things actually are used and should handle in the field than the cult. Got furious with the M8, wouldn't touch the M9, got back in w MM. They can be very very good, but sometimes can also get on the other side of the line. They are not perfect. 

These two new products, M10R and M10M, seem just lovely, wonderful. The ability to get that level of control, handheld and small, and still use older lenses... wow. Its been a long road, but these just seem to be definitive answers. Hard to criticize, based on what's been posted. More interested in the highlight recovery, but the extra resolution is nice too. Adds a lot of flexibility. Kudos to them. 

[Chaemono]

Am 21.7.2020 um 14:43 schrieb Tailwagger:

Aah to hell with work.

Mine arrived sooner than I expected but I don’t have the luxury to say “to hell with work.” Work pays for it, so the camera will have to wait until the weekend. 

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

Mine arrived sooner than I expected but I don’t have the luxury to say “to hell with work.” Work pays for it, so the camera will have to wait until the weekend. 

Perhaps the singular pandemic positive is that my boss not only can't see me, but he has no desire to.   😉

I'll be very interested to get your take on the camera. 

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Tailwagger:

Perhaps the singular pandemic positive is that my boss not only can't see me, but he has no desire to.   😉

I'll be very interested to get your take on the camera. 

I strongly subscribe to the view that larger pixels are better and compared the M10/-P to the α7R III and the Z7 in a number of posts with the same lens here (RAW file links are included): https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290339-exposing-for-highlights/page/8/?_fromLogin=1. The M10-P did particularly well in #158. Although, I have to admit that I should have put the Sony and the Z7 at base ISO. The Z7 has this amazing detail retention of highlights at base ISO. I thought ISO 125 was close enough. 

I since sold the α7R III but didn't get around to selling the Z7 for some reason. I'm intrigued to see how well the M10-R stacks up against the Nikon for DR, highlights and 'push-ability' of files. As you know, the SL2 has this incredible base ISO with awesomely 'push-able' files. I'd like to compare the base ISO of the M10-R against it.

I took some of my best pictures with the M10 and I really liked the files when properly exposed. 

 

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Look here: Leica M

[Hey You]

Like others, I am delighted with the M10-R.  I also proudly/humbly take pride in finding an area where the M10-R falls short relative to the M10.  It is - drumroll! - Dust Detection.  The reason I tried the camera’s Dust Detection capabilities is not because I am anal and think this is the best use for an M10-R.  Rather, it is because Jaapv once posted that a new camera’s shutter curtain may shed oil, specks and suchlike onto the sensor when first used.  I decided to check how clean the sensor was, and to monitor if it changed.

Dust detection on the M10 was simple.  It involved finding any smooth and homogeneous surface and taking a defocussed image of it.  Given its significant increase in resolution, the M10-R is more likely than the M10 to see minute irregularities in the image as dust on the sensor.  Consequently it seems to have more rigorous dust detection logic and is more demanding of dust detection images.  Whenever I found a surface which seemed uniform and uniformly lit, I took a defocussed Dust Detection image.  I have yet to take an image which does not yield the warning “image inhomogeneous.”  I would be interested in learning whether other M10-R users have had more success than I have had.

The M10-R may have advanced dust detection capabilities, but they are useless if they reject every  test image.  This is trivial and does not detract from my delight in the camera, but is an area where Leica could do some work.  Perhaps two grades of dust detection - Medium and High?

[darylgo]

26 minutes ago, Hey You said:

“image inhomogeneous.” 

This has happened to me on several M cameras, I could not get it to work.   The sensor blobs show quite clearly on images of the sky, I don't know where they go with more detailed subjects.