helged Posted June 22, 2020 Share #121 Posted June 22, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 minutes ago, BernardC said: Is it perhaps exactly 1 f-stop more? As far as I know, the SL2's sensor doesn't have variable gain at all ISOs (only Canon does that for now), so 50 is the same as 100, with the curve shifted by 1 f-stop. In other words, 50 gives you less room in the highlights, and more in the shadows, compared to 100. I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason to offer 50 ISO was to allow Noctilux use in full daylight. At least 1 f-stop, I would say. In any case I gave up using ISO50 because of blown highlights. All are personal preferences, of course: I have (generally) little problems with deep shadows/blacks, but blown highlights are - mostly - distracting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 Hi helged, Take a look here Leica SL2 Firmware 2.0: 187 MP Multishot Mode. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 22, 2020 Share #122 Posted June 22, 2020 Photonstophotos has no SL2 curve yet, but both the SL and Q2 don't show any indication of a pulled 50 ISO, I would suppose that Leica has not deviated with the SL2. (blue SL, black Q2) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997450'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 22, 2020 Share #123 Posted June 22, 2020 6 hours ago, masjah said: Oh dear, now I'm confused. I've read in several places that the general opinion is that the "base" iso is 100, and that ISO 50 is therefore a "pulled" setting. Yes, there have been contradictory statements about ISO 50. Since ISO 50 measures higher DR (see photonstophotos.com) it cannot be pulled ISO. For practical needs, you may be better off using ISO 100 as lowest ISO setting (no need for extra exposure correction). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 22, 2020 Share #124 Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, jaapv said: Photonstophotos has no SL2 curve yet, but both the SL and Q2 don't show any indication of a pulled 50 ISO, I would suppose that Leica has not deviated with the SL2. (blue SL, black Q2) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! PhotonsToPhotos has been having SL2 measurements for quite a while: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica%20Q2,Leica%20SL2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 22, 2020 Share #125 Posted June 22, 2020 Thanks - I had the wrong page Anyway, no indication of a pull@ ISO50 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997481'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 22, 2020 Share #126 Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, helged said: Quite many have run real-world tests of the SL2 sensor at ISO50, 100, 200, etc. The best I can say is to treat ISO100 as the base ISO, and you get the most out of the sensor (see also the video in post 112 at about 17:40). At ISO50 you have to underexpose quite a bit more than at ISO100 in order to preserve highlights, so I am quite confident that the added DR at ISO50 is (more than) lost compared to ISO100. <snip> You do not loose DR when shooting at ISO 50 and exposing "optimally". I agree that ISO 100 is more convenient, and there is plenty of DR there as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted June 22, 2020 Share #127 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 23 hours ago, SrMi said: If you have completely static subject, turn motion artifact correction Off for better details. If you have slight motions, e.g., leaves moving in the wind, turn motion artifact correction On to prevent strange movement effects, but you may get slightly less detail than with the correction Off. The difference in detail between On and Off seems very very subtle ...but i agree that there is minutely more detail when it was Off based on some more shots i just took. Clearly there is much less moire and false color when in 187mp high resolution mode (in EITHER the On or Off position for motion artefacts correction) compared to the normal 47mp mode. When the high resolution mode was in ON for motion correction, there were a few small areas of moire here and there in the shots i did ...... but absolutely zero areas of moire when the camera was OFF for motion correction. I found that difference surprising. It was a good test for moire too ....i was shooting scaffolding that was covered in its semi-translucent dust / protective fabric, see image below that is the normal 47mp mode ..... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 22, 2020 by Jon Warwick Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997486'>More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 22, 2020 Share #128 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Ideally, multishot eliminates Moire. The shots are taken in groups of four, so that each pixel location now gets one red, one blue and two green filtered shots and there is no error from the Bayer color mosaic. They do that twice, with the second set of four shots taken at the center of the original grid of pixels. Now you have 2X the original number of pixels, and each has complete color information, just like a Foveon chip, but these 2X pixels are not placed on the right grid. The tricky part is turning all this nice Moire-free information back into a "virtual" set of 4X as many pixels as you started with, but color artifacts should not happen. The motion artifact elimination probably messes up this nice symmetry, in order to move things differently based on when they happened, and each color happened at a slightly different time. Edited June 22, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted June 22, 2020 Share #129 Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, SrMi said: You do not loose DR when shooting at ISO 50 and exposing "optimally". I agree that ISO 100 is more convenient, and there is plenty of DR there as well. The question is, I believe: Does highlight clipping - including in-body software alternations and PP-software - scale linearely with ISO? As stated above (& for me), ISO100 remains the optimal, high-quality ISO-setting on the SL2. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted June 22, 2020 Share #130 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) I've picked up some strange artefacts appearing on images taken with Multishot mode, especially with the VE 24-90mm L. I'm definitely not a pixel peeper, couldn't help but notice this: Image #1- 100% crop -Multishot mode with the VE 24-90mm L @ 90mm. You'll notice a jagged pattern in the image, almost like the edge of a hacksaw blade. ISO50 f8 1/160s - motion correction set to OFF. Click on the image & then click again twice to enlarge, the pattern is visible all over the image. (See next post for Image #2) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 22, 2020 by michali 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997569'>More sharing options...
michali Posted June 22, 2020 Share #131 Posted June 22, 2020 Image #2- 100% crop -Normal size DNG of the same image with the VE 24-90mm L. The jagged pattern is not there. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997570'>More sharing options...
michali Posted June 22, 2020 Share #132 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) I repeated the above exercise with the 90mm M Elmarit - ISO50 f8 1/160s Image #1: 100% crop the jagged pattern still appears on the Musltishot image, but is far less visible than it is with the VE 24-90mm L. Click on the image & then click again twice to enlarge, the pattern is just barely visible where I've circled it. (See next post for Image #2) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 22, 2020 by michali 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997575'>More sharing options...
michali Posted June 22, 2020 Share #133 Posted June 22, 2020 Image #2- 100% crop -Normal size DNG of the same image with the 90mm M Elmarit. The jagged pattern is not there. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310699-leica-sl2-firmware-20-187-mp-multishot-mode/?do=findComment&comment=3997576'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted June 22, 2020 Share #134 Posted June 22, 2020 .... so Multishot is better on the SL2 than the S1R. It still has limitations and from a practical point of view rather limited uses. I played with it on my S1R initially and have never used it since as I cannot really find any use for it. The files are enormous , slow to process and I'm not sure why I would ever want this resolution. Leica have only added it as a feature because it was present on the S1R. If they were serious about it Mutishot would have been there at release. The time would have been better spent adding some more useful functionality. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted June 22, 2020 Share #135 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, michali said: I repeated the above exercise with the 90mm M Elmarit - ISO50 f8 1/160s Image #1: 100% crop the jagged pattern still appears on the Musltishot image, but is far less visible than it is with the VE 24-90mm L. Click on the image & then click again twice to enlarge, the pattern is just barely visible where I've circled it. (See next post for Image #2) I would certainly agree that it looks better with the M lens. Whatever went on with the VE 24-90 doesn't look right at all, i too see the jagged pattern over the whole image in that one. I'm using the SL Summicron 50mm APO on the SL2, and can't find that type of jagged pattern in a single image i've taken so far. Whilst it's not a heavy set-up at all, I am using a good carbon fibre tripod (Gitzo GT1542) and Arca Swiss P0 that are remarkably solid and vibration free for their low weight. I assume in your images that your camera is fully bolted down to rule out any of these artefacts coming from very slight movement? ...i'd imagine the tolerances for any camera movement is incredibly small for a flawless multi-shot, given the way the sensor is minutely moving around to create the final image. Edited June 22, 2020 by Jon Warwick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 23, 2020 Share #136 Posted June 23, 2020 5 hours ago, michali said: Image #2- 100% crop -Normal size DNG of the same image with the 90mm M Elmarit. The jagged pattern is not there. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The smaller the lens, the better the result ?!? It would have been interesting to see 90-280 result as well. I seem to get best multi-shot results with M-lenses as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 23, 2020 Share #137 Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, thighslapper said: .... so Multishot is better on the SL2 than the S1R. It still has limitations and from a practical point of view rather limited uses. I played with it on my S1R initially and have never used it since as I cannot really find any use for it. The files are enormous , slow to process and I'm not sure why I would ever want this resolution. Leica have only added it as a feature because it was present on the S1R. If they were serious about it Mutishot would have been there at release. The time would have been better spent adding some more useful functionality. I have never used Multishot on my cameras that had it already for a while. However, Olympus hand-held, high-resolution mode, and Leica's (with M-lenses) high-quality Multishot, I may start to use it more often. Leica's Multishot files are indeed huge and very slow to process. But it is not only about the resolution (cropping possibilities) but also less noise in the shadows and better colors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 23, 2020 Share #138 Posted June 23, 2020 A quwstion to those experiencing problems with Multi-shot using the 24-90 OIS zoom. Did you turn off OIS explicitly? It would certainly get in the way of the multishot process, and there might be a bug in which the camera forgets to do this. I don't have this lens to try it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted June 23, 2020 Share #139 Posted June 23, 2020 11 hours ago, michali said: I've picked up some strange artefacts appearing on images taken with Multishot mode, especially with the VE 24-90mm L. I'm definitely not a pixel peeper, couldn't help but notice this: Image #1- 100% crop -Multishot mode with the VE 24-90mm L @ 90mm. You'll notice a jagged pattern in the image, almost like the edge of a hacksaw blade. ISO50 f8 1/160s - motion correction set to OFF. Click on the image & then click again twice to enlarge, the pattern is visible all over the image. (See next post for Image #2) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Would be interesting to see the results @24mm as well. And, as @scott kirkpatrick states, with OIS at off. The 24-90 is very sharp at all but the longest focal length(s), and should be fine for the Multishot (haven't time to do the test myself...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 23, 2020 Share #140 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said: A quwstion to those experiencing problems with Multi-shot using the 24-90 OIS zoom. Did you turn off OIS explicitly? It would certainly get in the way of the multishot process, and there might be a bug in which the camera forgets to do this. I don't have this lens to try it. Image stabilization is turned off implicitly when in Multishot mode (stabilization setting not accessible). I tried turning the stabilization off then switching to Multishot and did not see any difference. Of course, there could still be some unfortunate interaction with OIS. OIS and IBIS are coupled in this case and controlled from the menu in the camera. Edited June 23, 2020 by SrMi 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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