Fatter is Better!

[setuporg]

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So now that I handle both M246 and M10M, I can't help feeling that the fatter form factor is easier to hold.  The battery also lasts longer.

I had the same feeling with M10 vs M60.  The M60 is a whole different species, made of steel, so it could have been an overall feeling.  But now I see it applies across the board.  Sure the M10 platform is slim and matches M-P and film Ms.

But I don't understand why "slimmer is better" is an almost foregone conclusion.  I have reasonably large, but not huge, hands, and assume for most men handling a M246 is easier, you can grab it much better, IMHO.

The M10M is a beauty and certainly being slimmer does not detract from it, but I don't believe it's easier to hold.

[Jager]

I suspect the thinner-is-better refrain is something you mostly hear from longtime Leica M users... as the thickness of the M body remained essentially fixed for many, many decades.  You use something for a long time and you get used to it.  Certainly that's the reason many of us rejoiced when the M10 finally returned to what we consider the "right" dimensions.

I can see how the fatter size of the M8-M9-M240 generations might appeal to many, especially if they weren't part of that earlier history.  And, as you mention, the bigger battery can be an advantage.  But I'll take the correct (film M size) thickness every time! 😉

 

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[setuporg]

I can see that too, and obviously Leica strives to recreate the film experience in the M body, going as far as a faux rewind lever.  I wonder whether we might even get an M10M-D with that...

But my first Leica was Zorky-4, the Soviet version built at the original Leica factory confiscated under reparations and shipped to the USSR, which my dad gave me when I was about 14.  And my first real Leica was the M10 obtained as soon as it came out in 2017.  The moment I got the M60 in 2018, I felt it's easier to handle.  The M246 confirmed that and now M10M confirmed that too.:)  So I wonder what people actually feel by holding it, not by remembering (illustrious!) history.:)

[shirubadanieru]

Digital leicas (besides the M10D) are much harder to hold because they don’t have the film advance lever...film Leicas are a joy to hold! The best option for digital (regardless of fatness) is to get a thumbs-up (btw thumbs-up is much better ergonomically than Leica’s own thumb grip). 

[elmars]

For me there is no difference in holding the fat M246 or the slim M10M. But I wish all M cameras would have the lever from the M10-D.

[shirubadanieru]

Same! I was really hoping they’d keep it for the m10m

[strohscw]

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb shirubadanieru:

Same! I was really hoping they’d keep it for the m10m

Why not using the Thumbie for Leica M, simple and has the same effect?

[pippy]

12 hours ago, setuporg said:

...my first Leica was Zorky-4, the Soviet version built at the original Leica factory confiscated under reparations and shipped to the USSR...

Small points but the plant seized by the Russians was from the Zeiss, Dresden, factory where they made the Contax II and III cameras and this tooling (and spares) was shipped to Kiev, in the Ukraine, where they created the Kiev range of cameras in the Arsenal factory. The earliest Kiev II and III bodies and lenses were, to a large degree, assembled using the spare Contax parts.

The Korki 4, OTOH, was made in the KMZ factory which was originally set up in 1942 near Moscow.

Carry On!

Philip.

Edited April 23, 2020 by pippy

[shirubadanieru]

54 minutes ago, strohscw said:

Why not using the Thumbie for Leica M, simple and has the same effect?

I have the thumbs up for the M10M, but a few disadvantages:
1) It adds weight (about 30g or smtg)
2) It’s always pointing out making it sometimes uncomfortable to carry against your body
3) You can’t use the hot shoe
4) Still not as comfortable to carry as with the film advance lever 

The M10D solution that Leica created was really perfect, and sometimes I’d forget I was carrying a digital Leica when I had the M10D. I really wish that would be a permanent feature on all Leica cameras. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by shirubadanieru

[Stealth3kpl]

7 hours ago, elmars said:

But I wish all M cameras would have the lever from the M10-D.

I got one of these from a Forum member for use on my M240. It transforms the handling. I thoroughly recommend it.

Pete

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Stealth3kpl said:

I got one of these from a Forum member for use on my M240. It transforms the handling. I thoroughly recommend it.

Pete

The Thumbies are really good accessories for the M's, much better than the Leica/Thumbs Up models in that the hot-shoe is not used by the Thumbie. I have them on all 4 of my various M's with the exception of the M10D which doesn't need it. Highly recommended..........

[LocalHero1953]

15 hours ago, setuporg said:

So now that I handle both M246 and M10M, I can't help feeling that the fatter form factor is easier to hold.  The battery also lasts longer.

I had the same feeling with M10 vs M60.  The M60 is a whole different species, made of steel, so it could have been an overall feeling.  But now I see it applies across the board.  Sure the M10 platform is slim and matches M-P and film Ms.

But I don't understand why "slimmer is better" is an almost foregone conclusion.  I have reasonably large, but not huge, hands, and assume for most men handling a M246 is easier, you can grab it much better, IMHO.

The M10M is a beauty and certainly being slimmer does not detract from it, but I don't believe it's easier to hold.

Maybe Leica wanted to sell more cameras to women? 😲

[bayernfan]

The 240/246 thickness and weight is perfect for my hands. It just feels right.

I’ve held a few M10s and my impression is that it is too thin and too dense.  I feel like I’m pinching it rather than grasping it. I’d imagine a thumb rest is almost mandatory (which is a shame). They really should put the film lever on all M10 bodies. 

[Ken Abrahams]

I took the M9M out for some shots, the first time since February after receiving the M10M. I did not notice any ergonomic disadvantage. Perhaps my  brain/memory is too familiar with the M9M and handling it seemed automatic? I didn't notice anything special when shifting back to the slimmer M10M. I think the size difference between the two has worked out well.  When working both cameras, there is a physical differentiation that helps to adjust to working each cameras unique functions. The slimmer body looks better in my opinion.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Ken Abrahams
grammer

[setuporg]

@Ken Abrahams absolutely agreed on the looks, but also agree with @bayernfan on "pinching" the M10s instead of "grabbing" them -- a perfect metaphor.  You get used to it, as I did again with M10M.  When you hold it in your right hand, it leans against the ball of the hand and with a regular to large hand it's easier to wrap your fingers around the thicker body.  But since you might support it with your left hand from the bottom it might easily get adjusted.  Still pretty amazing how much longer the M246 battery lasts, even with video.  I'm in a complementary phase where I carry three M bodies in a bag, the M10, the M246, and the M10M, the monochromes both with an APO Summicron 50 and the M10 with the Summilux 50.  Amazing how easy it is to carry them all compared to just one Leica S with an extra lens or two.  BTW I find the S handy, so I might be biased toward a thicker (camera) body...

Edited April 25, 2020 by setuporg

[setuporg]

I took the M10 along with the M10M on a walk and realized why I've not noticed the thinnest difference between the M10 and the M246 in a bit -- my M10 was in its Luigi full case since the beginning.  I have a version with the grip and it makes it similar to the M246 in thickness and even easier to hold.  A new M10M, which feels better without a case, and has that new camera smell, makes the difference with M246 (which I also use without a case) quite obvious when pinching or grabbing.

[farnz]

"Fatter is better."?

In a wallet: yes.  

In an M: no.

Pete.

[fotografr]

On 4/22/2020 at 5:00 PM, setuporg said:

So now that I handle both M246 and M10M, I can't help feeling that the fatter form factor is easier to hold.  The battery also lasts longer.

I had the same feeling with M10 vs M60.  The M60 is a whole different species, made of steel, so it could have been an overall feeling.  But now I see it applies across the board.  Sure the M10 platform is slim and matches M-P and film Ms.

But I don't understand why "slimmer is better" is an almost foregone conclusion.  I have reasonably large, but not huge, hands, and assume for most men handling a M246 is easier, you can grab it much better, IMHO.

The M10M is a beauty and certainly being slimmer does not detract from it, but I don't believe it's easier to hold.

I think this is totally dependent on the individual's hand size and finger length. For example, Donald Trump would need the slimmer body due to his tiny fingers not being able to wrap around the larger camera body.

I don't know if you use a Thumbs Up, but that attachment makes both cameras easy to hold. I have average size hands for a person of 6'1" height and the M10M is extremely comfortable for me.

[LeicaPassion]

There's another option.  The RRS grip and baseplate make the M10M easy to handle in both the horizontal and vertical positions.  I don't need the Thumbs Up, which I used with the M9M and M246.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[evikne]

I prefer slim camera bodies, but I like fat lenses (because they are faster). 😉