Leicarumours list a bunch of Leica lenses no longer on sale

[wlaidlaw]

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Andy,

I bought a new 1995 135/4 Tele-Elmar still sealed in its box in 2008 from that big S/H classic camera shop near the Dom in Köln. They said they had bought the stock of a dealership which had closed down when the owner retired and he had just put all his new Leica stock in his garage. When he died a considerable number of years later, his wife sold it all off, just like I suspect may happen to some of us Leica collectors also 😀. 

As you can see from my OP, I too was a dubious about the Leicarumours post. Some I sort of understand, the Summarits for example, where I bought a 75/2.5 the week they came out but have never warmed to it. It might just become a collectors' item😗

Wilson

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[Kwesi]

If this rumor is true then I hope Leica replaces the Summarit line of lenses with a new line of entry level  35/2.8 and 50/2.8  lenses that can be purchased for under $2,000.00 US.  The current 28/2.8 should be reduced in price to complete this line of basic primes. The only differentiator from their counter parts should be the maximum aperture. They should both have 0.7m  minimum focusing distance. This way newcomers to the M camera have an affordable entry point into the Leica M system.

All we need for proof of how popular this would be is to look at how often we have to advise newcomers on which "affordable" first lens to buy.

[TomB_tx]

1 hour ago, Kwesi said:

If this rumor is true then I hope Leica replaces the Summarit line of lenses with a new line of entry level  35/2.8 and 50/2.8  lenses that can be purchased for under $2,000.00 US.  The current 28/2.8 should be reduced in price to complete this line of basic primes. The only differentiator from their counter parts should be the maximum aperture. They should both have 0.7m  minimum focusing distance. This way newcomers to the M camera have an affordable entry point into the Leica M system.

All we need for proof of how popular this would be is to look at how often we have to advise newcomers on which "affordable" first lens to buy.

This was their marketing method in the 50s - 60s. When I bought my M4 the 50 2.8 Elmar cost $82. The Leica rep told me that the performance and quality of the 2.8 - 2.0 - 1.4 lenses were comparable, so the max aperture was the difference. It was certainly harder to correct faster designs, so more elements and complexity was required, which raised the cost and price.

However, back then Leica was one of the big competitors in the photographic market, and the lower cost line was needed to compete. Today Leica is a minor niche player catering to wealthy amateurs, and their Summarit line is still out of reach for the mainstream market. Even as seen on this forum, most newbies are asking about the most expensive (and fastest) lenses, so clearly the bargain basement items don't appeal to them. 

Some of us old-hands appreciate the Summarit line, but I'm sure sales quantities don't justify it. Many of the fixed-costs of producing and marketing a lens are similar for low and high priced items, and you have to sell a LOT more Summarits to give as much profit as a few APOs.

It's like a car dealer told me: it's just as much work for a salesman to sell a cheap car as a luxury model, but he earns a lot more per sale from the top end. So they talk everyone into as much as they can. I fondly remember VW in the early 60s: sell as a low list price, no negotiating, and sell a ton of them. But that doesn't work with today's buyers.

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, Kwesi said:

If this rumor is true then I hope Leica replaces the Summarit line of lenses with a new line of entry level  35/2.8 and 50/2.8  lenses that can be purchased for under $2,000.00 US.  The current 28/2.8 should be reduced in price to complete this line of basic primes. The only differentiator from their counter parts should be the maximum aperture. They should both have 0.7m  minimum focusing distance. This way newcomers to the M camera have an affordable entry point into the Leica M system.

All we need for proof of how popular this would be is to look at how often we have to advise newcomers on which "affordable" first lens to buy.

Yes and small please, not bigger than the APO 50 or the Summicron 35 iv

[lct]

2 hours ago, Kwesi said:

If this rumor is true then I hope Leica replaces the Summarit line of lenses with a new line of entry level  35/2.8 and 50/2.8  lenses that can be purchased for under $2,000.00 US [...]

Hard to sell a 35/2.8 for $2,000  whereas the excellent ZM 35/2.8 can be had for $900... I would not hold my breath but i may be wrong.

[evikne]

I've always thought that anything between f/2.0 and f/2.8 is superfluous anyway. So I won't miss the Summarit line if the rumor is true. 

[luigi bertolotti]

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Frankly this rumor looks odd to me, but practically  can't say that touches me so much... of all my Leica lenses (dozens...) the only I bought brand new is the Summarit 75 2,5  (just as a hommage to my first digital camera... M8) , not counting the CV 15 III.  18 is a focal I think time to time...and that's all... 

 

[BJohn]

I just received a Summilux-M 24 which was made in 2020. So I am not quite sure whether this news is actually true...!

[RayD28]

I've thought about getting the 18mm SEM from time to time.  It will be interesting to see how prices are affected if the rumor is true.  

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, evikne said:

I've always thought that anything between f/2.0 and f/2.8 is superfluous anyway. So I won't miss the Summarit line if the rumor is true. 

superfluous to your style you mean?

For me anything anything faster than f/2.0 is superfluous .

[evikne]

24 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

superfluous to your style you mean?

For me anything anything faster than f/2.0 is superfluous .

I just meant that I don't quite see the necessity of having lenses so close to each other in speed.

If we're talking about my personal preferences, anything slower than f/2.0 is of no interest. 😉

But I fully understand that others want smaller and cheaper lenses – which I also do of course – but I won't be without the extra possibilities I get from a faster lens.

Edited March 14, 2020 by evikne

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, evikne said:

I just meant that I don't quite see the necessity of having lenses so close to each other in speed.

If we're talking about my personal preferences, anything slower than f/2.0 is of no interest. 😉

But I fully understand that others want smaller and cheaper lenses – which I also do of course – but I won't be without the extra possibilities I get from a faster lens.

Got you now,you mean so close to the summicrom speed.

 

[wlaidlaw]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

superfluous to your style you mean?

For me anything anything faster than f/2.0 is superfluous .

I do a lot of film photography, mainly with M7 and R9, often taking evening or artificial lighting shots. Fast lenses are therefore, a vital part of my tool kit, also to get the shallow DOF. I am now pretty much complete for M lenses with my fast lens kit comprising 21/1.5, 28/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/0.95, and 50 /1.4, 75/1.25 and 85/1.5. I would like to add some faster lenses for my R cameras and Leicaflex SL2 but the demand from videographers has pushed the prices through the roof for the various R Summiluxes, so having to make do with various Summicrons. 

Wilson

[evikne]

23 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Got you now,you mean so close to the summicrom speed.

Yes, f/2.0 – f/2.4(5) – f/2.8 … 

I fully understand if Leica wants to weed out a bit. 

[wlaidlaw]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

I've thought about getting the 18mm SEM from time to time.  It will be interesting to see how prices are affected if the rumor is true.  

It is a lovely lens but virtually every time I think: "oh that would be good with the 18SEM" - I don't have it with me. I have arthritic degenerative spinal scoliosis, so carrying a huge bag of lenses is out of the question for me. With my R9, I have even resorted to one of the not wholly brilliant zooms (28-70) for daylight use, to save me having to hump extra lenses around. That is one very nice thing about the digital CL, the lightness of the lenses, so I  can carry the 11-23 in a coat or photographer's waistcoat pocket and barely notice it is there. I sold the 90-280SL after 18 months as I just could not bear to carry it around. I rarely take more than the lens on the camera plus one more lens or rarely two bodies with two different length lenses. 

Wilson

 

[RayD28]

13 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

It is a lovely lens but virtually every time I think: "oh that would be good with the 18SEM" - I don't have it with me. I have arthritic degenerative spinal scoliosis, so carrying a huge bag of lenses is out of the question for me. With my R9, I have even resorted to one of the not wholly brilliant zooms (28-70) for daylight use, to save me having to hump extra lenses around. That is one very nice thing about the digital CL, the lightness of the lenses, so I  can carry the 11-23 in a coat or photographer's waistcoat pocket and barely notice it is there. I sold the 90-280SL after 18 months as I just could not bear to carry it around. I rarely take more than the lens on the camera plus one more lens or rarely two bodies with two different length lenses. 

Wilson

 

Wilson, I understand what you are saying.  What you describe is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on the 18mm.  Too many choices makes too much weight in the bag.  

 

[Guest]

To all scaredy cats: If you really think Leica will soon no longer manufacture these lenses, then buy, buy, buy ...

[SrMi]

On 3/13/2020 at 3:28 PM, lct said:

Can't seem to find anything like this on the Foto Görlitz site but those lenses are not available there and neither seem they at Meister Camera (Germany). They are available in France (Fnac) and in Luxembourg (Lecuit) though. Also in the USA (B&H) besides the 24/1.4. Not sure what L or other AF lenses have to do with that. 

Leica Camera USA has 24/1.4 ready to order: https://leicacamerausa.com/24mm-f1-4-asph-summilux-series-7-m.html.

And so does Leica Camera Germany: https://store.leica-camera.com/de/de/leica-summilux-m-1-1-4/24mm-asph.-schwarz-eloxiert

The (false) rumor claims that the listed lenses cannot be ordered: Several Leica M lenses are no longer in production and cannot be ordered.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

10 hours ago, evikne said:

anything slower than f/2.0 is of no interest

I follow what you mean, but I doubt if you mean that over the whole range from wide angle to tele. But in de mid-range a great exception is the Elmar-M 50. It’s quality is so high that I can live with the slow 2.8 here

[wlaidlaw]

38 minutes ago, otto.f said:

I follow what you mean, but I doubt if you mean that over the whole range from wide angle to tele. But in de mid-range a great exception is the Elmar-M 50. It’s quality is so high that I can live with the slow 2.8 here

The 2007 coded Elmar-50 I bought new, was the worst made Leica lens I have ever had. Its barrel was so loose that it would drop out under gravity and it did not lock into place rigidly. There were next to no detents perceptible on the aperture ring and the focus ring felt sloppy as well. I left it at Solms during a visit for warranty attention and it came back unchanged (and at that time when their service department was not good, I suspect it had not been touched). I sold it. In contrast my earlier 1961 Elmar-M 50/2.8 is beautifully made. Its barrel slides in and out like a hydraulic piston, it locks totally rigidly into position and is a pleasure to use. It may not be quite as good optically as the later sloppy version but as I use it wholly on film (currently sitting on my M4-P), it is quite good enough. If I ever  needed more resolution, I can always mount my 50mm/f2 ZM Planar, which a couple of Leica lens gurus have said is very close to being as good as the APO-Summicron. 

Wilson

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by wlaidlaw