Considering Leica M-A/M-P, concerns about quality, needs help

[mdp]

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31 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

More than 76,000 units of M2 built, we have more choices than scarce "new M-A".

 

Side note...

In second stage, if I have to sell now, I'd sell M-A over M2 (that I still happend to possess two "battered but working as new M2", also).

 

I had MP in x0.85 and x 0.72, M2 has the nicer 'complete and mono focal frames lines' than MP which in turn has brighter/contrastier VF

Handling is same M2 is way lighter in hand than MP. Strange as MP at 600g and M2 weight 560g !

Real vulcanite is on M2 better than slippy leatherette MP, if not replaced covering.

Changing film is quicker on MP which accept Leicavit or Motor if required.

Pretty much agree with this, although the extra frame lines of the MP don't bother me. It's strange how the M2 feels so much lighter... 

 

[colint544]

I own, and use regularly, an M2, and an M4. The plastic bits on the M4 don't particularly bother me, but the M2 just feels a little more special. It has a fantastic viewfinder, with a strong, unbroken rectangle frameline for each focal length, and nothing else to distract. The M4 has a slightly 'busier' viewfinder.

I prefer the loading system of the M2. After a little practice it seems less fiddly than that of the M4, and it's 100% secure. And the knob rewind of the M2, whilst slower than the angled crank on the M4, is really solid and over-engineered. The M4 crank seems more fragile.

Other nice things about the older Leitz M cameras - proper, grippy Vulcanite, recessed windows (fewer finger prints), self-timer, and classic engraved Leitz script on the top plate.

I really wouldn't worry about going for an old camera. Get it serviced and it will last and last. I bought my M2 in 2013. It was a bit tired, the controls were stiff, and the viewfinder dim and slightly foggy. Had it serviced, and it was a different camera. I've put over 130 rolls of film through it since then, and it's never missed a beat.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you buy. You can't go wrong with any analogue film M. 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by colint544

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[Topsy]

I've opted for M2 and MP, M2 for 35mm framelines and MP for built in light meter. No desire for any other although did try M6 and M4P but didn't like the plastic wind on lever.

[a.noctilux]

M2 feels lighter, maybe the grip of real vulcanite over the slippy covering of the MP ( I had "stock MP" original leatherette ).

Meanwhile, MPs were fantastic creative tools if one learns how to use them at best.

Once in hand, I adapt myself to the tools (or the other way around ? ) lenses or bodies,film or digital.

 

Each Leica M is a pleasant tool, really not important which model it is, the results can be as good as any other M.

But really knowing well the tool can be much more important than the tool itself.

 

Once I had those "tools" ( now less one ! )

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Edited March 2, 2020 by a.noctilux

[mole73]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb a.noctilux:

M2 feels lighter, maybe the grip of real vulcanite over the slippy covering of the MP ( I had "stock MP" original leatherette ).

Meanwhile, MPs were fantastic creative tools if one learns how to use them at best.

Once in hand, I adapt myself to the tools (or the other way around ? ) lenses or bodies,film or digital.

 

Each Leica M is a pleasant tool, really not important which model it is, the results can be as good as any other M.

But really knowing well the tool can be much more important than the tool itself.

 

Once I had those "tools" ( now less one ! )

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Great collection!

 

[TomB_tx]

Back in 1968 I decided to get a Leica after using an M2 a bit. The M3 was still available new, at the same price as the M4. I handled both quite a bit at the camera store where I worked part time, and I found the pivoting plastic tip on the wind lever much more comfortable to use, and I saw the extra frame lines as an advantage - they've never bothered me at all. So I bought the M4, which I still have and use. 35, 50, & 90 were my M lenses for 40 years. I added an M6 in '85 and since then have used it more than the M4: I like the meter. I've never had an issue with the "fast" film loading of either, but once did shoot a "phantom" roll in my Leicaflex SL when I messed up loading it.

But after I retired I started trying the models I skipped, as used M prices were low at the time, adding M3, M2 and finally M5. They are all great, but it's the M5 that proved subversive, as it has become my most appreciated film M to use. I do like the LED arrows meter readout of the M6-MP, as it is easily read in all ranges of light, but otherwise the M5 is nicer to shoot. If people had tried it instead of passing it over (as I did) it would have been a great success.

[spydrxx]

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Your M2 won't require "FREQUENT" service unless you are beating it to death...maybe every 15-25 years, which isn't frequent. And on the issue of quality of more recent models...think about the perspective...a few complaints here and there out of the thousands produced...it just isn't a genuine issue IMHO. Every manufacturer of any product has occasional issues, good manufacturers, like Leica, fix those issues. Don't fret...just enjoy!

[ktmrider2]

Get the M2.  Does not require any more frequent service then any other M.  MP and MA will require service as frequently as older models once "newness" wears off.

[a.noctilux]

Some are just fine to be used ...

Some Lovers

More Lovers ...

 

In percent of "flaw new M" (which is sorted out by Leica anyway), I wonder how many part of percent this can be ?

Complains are wide spread, in my view (as user of those) the reality must be much less than the "noise".

 

[01af]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb wattsy:

The cameras are built in Portugal as far as I know.

The machining of the metal parts (body shells, top caps, bottom plates, levers, dials, rings that will become lens barrels etc.) is done in Portugal. Prisms, too (used in the rangefinder optics as well as in the optical viewfinder of the Leica S). Then the parts are sent to Wetzlar were they're used to build the cameras and lenses.

The product group entirely made in Portugal is the sports optics, i. e. binoculars, telescopes, sighting scopes.

[Topsy]

My pair, I think the older (2003) MP skin is better than the newer skin.

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[mole73]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Topsy:

My pair, I think the older (2003) MP skin is better than the newer skin.

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The original MP leatherette of 2003 (sharkskin, similar to the screw mount models of the 30´s) is exactly the same as in 2020. The texture of your MP shown in the picture seems similar to that of the M9 and could be chosen from the ala carte program. 

[Topsy]

5 minutes ago, mole73 said:

The original MP leatherette of 2003 (sharkskin, similar to the screw mount models of the 30´s) is exactly the same as in 2020. The texture of your MP shown in the picture seems similar to that of the M9 and could be chosen from the ala carte program. 

So at some time mine was given a makeover by a previous owner? I didn't know, not that it matters it is a nice feel though.

[mole73]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Topsy:

So at some time mine was given a makeover by a previous owner? I didn't know, not that it matters it is a nice feel though.

Could be, yes.

And your leatherette indeed has a very nice feel. I had it also on my M9 and after a change of the sensor in the factory they gave it a newer leatherette similar to the M Monochrom.

Edited March 2, 2020 by mole73

[Topsy]

3 minutes ago, mole73 said:

Could be, yes.

And your leatherette indeed has a very nice feel. I had it also on my M9 and after a change of the sensor in the factory they gave it a newer leatherette similar to the M Monochrom.

You're right it is the same as 2 of my M9s but this one is again modified by a previous owner and I like it too.

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[mole73]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb Topsy:

You're right it is the same as 2 of my M9s but this one is again modified by a previous owner and I like it too.

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This is "ostrich style" and was first used on the M6 with titanium surface in the 90´s.

By the way the brassing of your M9 looks great! 👍

This is a real neo classic!

[wattsy]

2 hours ago, 01af said:

The machining of the metal parts (body shells, top caps, bottom plates, levers, dials, rings that will become lens barrels etc.) is done in Portugal. Prisms, too (used in the rangefinder optics as well as in the optical viewfinder of the Leica S). Then the parts are sent to Wetzlar were they're used to build the cameras and lenses.

I think you’ll find the cameras are sent to Wetzlar as a bit more than a box of parts but are at least part built. Wetzlar get to make a few adjustments, stick the leather on (in a shonky fashion) and box it all up.

[mediumformula]

4 hours ago, mole73 said:

Could be, yes.

And your leatherette indeed has a very nice feel. I had it also on my M9 and after a change of the sensor in the factory they gave it a newer leatherette similar to the M Monochrom.

I don't have my new MP here because it had to be sent back to Germany for a faulty light meter.  That being said, I believe that mine has real leather on it, not leatherette. It's an "a la carte" with grey leather on black paint.  Are the factory black MPs with leatherette and not real leather? 

Edited March 2, 2020 by mediumformula

[a.noctilux]

Factory M-P (silver x0.85, BP x0.72) as I had them were covered with slippy fine grain leatherette (I think kind of vinyle ).

When I had M6 titanium coated, the covering must be calf leather ostrich "grain" imitation.

A bit different from the "grain" above 😉

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ianman]

29 minutes ago, mediumformula said:

Are the factory black MPs with leatherette and not real leather? 

Neither, it's more like 180 grit sand paper. Hideous stuff.

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