Your opinion about the Leica M10 Monochrom

[geoffreyg]

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You should be right. I was seeing a bit of softness in the images, and wanted to take movement off the table as one of the causes, and just check the ability to nail the focus, using both LV and the rangefinder. With good technique (and steadier hands) one should be able to use  lower shutter speeds.  

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[FHPdoc]

19 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The M10 Thumbie will work on the M10M. I’ll be moving mine across if I can find the spare piece of tape that is sent out with the Thumbie.

******

For me, having 40MP is nice but not the reason I waited till now to get a Monochrom. 24MP without bayer would have been fine for my A1 printing. What I wanted is the M10 form factor. I have an M-P and I could have shared batteries etc, but I prefer the M10 by some margin. The super quiet shutter is really lovely. I also wish they’d have the fake rewind lever from the M-D. It works really really well on that camera. The Thunbie will have to do.

I know I could convert from one of my colour cameras that have the resolution and the differences in acuity would be small. I wanted the limitations the M10M provides. I wanted the thought process that a camera that only shoot black and white gives you. I, like may other here, have shot and processed film for many years, even commercially but I’m no longer interested in putting those chemicals into the environment. And I am not able to set up a darkroom to print at the sizes I’d want anymore anyway.

Gordon

 

19 hours ago, Likaleica said:

+1.  Well put, Gordon.  My thoughts exactly.

 

19 hours ago, insideline said:

+1 Mine as well. Now the experimenting to determine which Lens('s) to primarily keep on the M10M. 

Dittos.  Have wanted a Monochrom since discovering (and succumbing) to the Leica pathos.  For me it's the mix of nostalgia for my younger B&W film days (but with the simplicity of "modern-day" technology), and the idea of thinking and seeing in B&W again.  The M10M just seemed the right place to start because I love my M10.  Have decided to pair it with the 50mm APO for now...

- Scott

[insideline]

45 minutes ago, FHPdoc said:

 

 

Dittos.  Have wanted a Monochrom since discovering (and succumbing) to the Leica pathos.  For me it's the mix of nostalgia for my younger B&W film days (but with the simplicity of "modern-day" technology), and the idea of thinking and seeing in B&W again.  The M10M just seemed the right place to start because I love my M10.  Have decided to pair it with the 50mm APO for now...

- Scott

Welcome to the dark side Scott! As a long time M6 film shooter, then M9 Monochrom, then M246, I feel as if this new M10M could well be the most flexible B&W camera for my uses given its clean high ISO abilities, dedicated high resolution 41MP B&W sensor, and paired with that same 50 APO it can also slip into ones jacket pocket, what's not to like? I also use and very much like the Hasselblad X1D2 body and next week the new 45P lens arrives and then I will perform comparisons of the M10M's 41MP Mono sensor vs the larger medium format X1D sensor to see which resolves more detail and provides the best breadth of dynamic range in B&W and in a small package, should be interesting. Truly amazing choices we have these days. 

Enjoy your new camera!

Edited January 25, 2020 by insideline
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[jonnyboy]

I passed by the Leica Store in London today hoping the camera would be out and about for people to try - but unfortunately it was behind the glass.
The staff seemed busy with 2 customers buying so I left....
I really wanted to feel the camera in hand, I may have to go back

[ChicagoMatthew]

On 1/24/2020 at 7:25 AM, Ko.Fe. said:

Maybe Saldago is much better now, but back then I opened his book with ice and penguins it was next to gross. Digitally over processed.

Emulating film with any camera is self illusion. I have Monochrome book and film M photography books. Opening them side by side clears this illusion.

It just doesn’t have to be the goal, but getting good images with Monochrome itself, possible, but only very few are capable. And looking at well made gelatine silver prints will help to understand about balanced tonality.

100% agree about the the over processed images. I think his book Genesis is the biggest offender.

I have not shot with the monochrome, but I haven't seen a lot of images posted that impress me very much. What I have seen so far is either flat, over processed or high-contrast/deep-black/bright-white images... 😕

[marcg]

44 minutes ago, ChicagoMatthew said:

I have not shot with the monochrome, but I haven't seen a lot of images posted that impress me very much. What I have seen so far is either flat, over processed or high-contrast/deep-black/bright-white images... 😕

and from what you have seen from the images of all three monochrome cameras, you think that what you see here is a function of the camera? Or technique?

In other words, do you think that if these images had been obtained with an M9M, that they might have had more interesting qualities about them?

[Ken Abrahams]

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I won't be letting the M Monochrom (M9M) go. Not that I was thinking about it but after comparisons to the type of grain I like with the M9M, is not easily achievable on the M10M.  I am not saying that I don't like the M10M grain, in fact its grain seems to be very similar to the M9M however much finer. Like comparing a TriX film with something finer.

I look at the out of focus areas in the image for quality of grain because it is those areas which add a unique atmosphere to the image. I used the very same workflow on both images below however the grain slider (Slvffx) was increased +100 intervals for M10M image compared to the M9M grain values. 

M10M was at 800 ISO and M9M was at base iso of 320.  Lots of discovering to do yet. . 

 

 

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[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, Kendoo said:

I won't be letting the M Monochrom (M9M) go. Not that I was thinking about it but after comparisons to the type of grain I like with the M9M, is not easily achievable on the M10M.  I am not saying that I don't like the M10M grain, in fact its grain seems to be very similar to the M9M however much finer. Like comparing a TriX film with something finer.

I look at the out of focus areas in the image for quality of grain because it is those areas which add a unique atmosphere to the image. I used the very same workflow on both images below however the grain slider (Slvffx) was increased +100 intervals for M10M image compared to the M9M grain values. 

M10M was at 800 ISO and M9M was at base iso of 320.  Lots of discovering to do yet. . 

 

 

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I mean, I always need to add grain in LR for the pics taken with the M9M to look anything close to film, so I don’t really see how that grain would be any different on the M10M given it’s added on Lightroom? 

[jaapv]

But why would you want your image to look close to film? The Monochrom cameras have their own unique rendering, which I like a lot. If I want to take an image that looks like film, I take my M6.

[shirubadanieru]

9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But why would you want your image to look close to film? The Monochrom cameras have their own unique rendering, which I like a lot. If I want to take an image that looks like film, I take my M6.

Because I like film way more than digital but I’m not able to develop / scan at home, so with time it gets expensive. The Monochrom cameras get output close to actual film (at least the M9M did when edited in LR to taste) for me to be happy with. Color digital still is not anywhere close and that’s why I choose to shoot color film, but it is not cheap and getting more expensive every year 😕

Edited January 27, 2020 by shirubadanieru

[jaapv]

I guess I am too perfectionist to do that .
If I am honest, I like the rendering of the Monochroms better than film, with the M9M at the top of the list, and as far as I have seen up to now (but I don't own one) the M10M second or equal.

[benqui]

Really a beauty! I did not yet see the camera in real life, but on the photos and videos it is really a cool looking camera. Congratulations to all the new owners, enjoy this perfct camera. But do I need it? No! I do not need such a high ISO performance and I am not sure whether I will see any differences in my photogrphy in comparison to the MM1 which force my to spend this price difference. I go with Jaap: for analog style (which I like a lot for portraits) I use a Tmax 400, in other cases mostly the "old" MM1.

[marcg]

I'm getting the impression one of the great advantages of the M10M is that it is a perfect tool for night-time photography. It certainly has this in spades over the M9M – and probably over the 266 as well.
Not the only advantage, of course – but one of the very clear benefits.

[Ko.Fe.]

6 hours ago, marcg said:

and from what you have seen from the images of all three monochrome cameras, you think that what you see here is a function of the camera? Or technique?

In other words, do you think that if these images had been obtained with an M9M, that they might have had more interesting qualities about them?

Very nice fragments! Black and white.

Here is no grain in digital cameras, only noise. And here is low ISO noise with CMOS sensors, which seems to be less in CCD at same low ISO.

[Ken Abrahams]

3 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I mean, I always need to add grain in LR for the pics taken with the M9M to look anything close to film, so I don’t really see how that grain would be any different on the M10M given it’s added on Lightroom? 

Yes, added grain in Lightroom, to certain styles of image making, not much added I might say. It can soften and add a feel to images which would otherwise too sharp. 
 

The larger sensor of M10M and non ccd makes for a very different camera. M10M at 10,000 iso is quite amazing in low light. 

[ChicagoMatthew]

13 hours ago, marcg said:

and from what you have seen from the images of all three monochrome cameras, you think that what you see here is a function of the camera? Or technique?

In other words, do you think that if these images had been obtained with an M9M, that they might have had more interesting qualities about them?

Well, I was generalizing, clearly. There are some images that don’t look terrible or overdone. For example, @johnbuckley wrote an article about using all three monochroms and his images are nice. Subtle, most are not over the top (IMO). His article might be a better resource for you if you are really making a decision. 
To answer your question, I would say it’s a combination of the characteristics of the camera, which spits out a pretty flat file that needs more work to get to the end result AND the pure flexibility in the raw file. So it’s easy to go over the top on the post, because the capability is there. I can see how it’s hard not to cross the line from good to gaudy. It’s hard to resist pulling the clouds and sky back a little more... but a lot of the time it looks unnatural to me.  
In my opinion, most people get a monochrome because they want a digital solution that is as close to their beloved BW film, while taking advantage of the convenience and quality of modern digital... but as astute users like @jaapv have pointed out, why try to do this? I am starting to understand that’s part of the issue (for me at least). The depth at which you can pull info back and save shadows/highlights without losing the tonality on the monochrome is outrageous, and it gives you a certain “look”... but that “look” doesn’t not replicate film in the 1:1 way that some people are hoping for.

[fotografr]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:04 PM, digitalfx said:

I received my M10M today, and it has quickly become my favorite M. I am coming from an M10, and even though they have the same name this is a completely new camera for me. Love the quite shutter, new sensor and the stealth look...now I might even understand why some users like to use black tape

+1

[fotografr]

On 1/25/2020 at 10:48 AM, SrMi said:

Shooting at 1/250 sec with 35mm (1/7f) is typically not necessary. Of course it depends on photographer, but I have yet to see camera shake blur when shooting with 1/2f (1/60 sec at 35mm, M10M).

My experience also, which I partly attribute to the vibration free shutter. That thing is so smooth and quiet I can hardly believe it.

Edited January 28, 2020 by fotografr

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gotium]

favorite. camera. ever. 

[bchalifour]

It is an idiosyncratic camera, the BW sensor (granted), the high ISO and high resolution, and the way the files have to be process (default setting have too much contrast for me). I have been using it for the fast 2 years. It is the camera I use the most and I must say I love it. The results are quite astounding for a 24 mm x 36 mm sensor / camera. I have had 3 exhibitions of my work done with this camera. Landscapes printed 50 cm x 60 cm (20" x 30"). [see gallery]

 

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Edited September 25, 2022 by bchalifour
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