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Your opinion about the Leica M10 Monochrom


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Your opinion about the Leica M10 Monochrom  

379 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your personal opinion of the Leica M10 Monochrome?

    • Will definitely buy if / already ordered
      115
    • I'm interested, but still waiting for more tests
      63
    • I'm interested, but it's too expensive for me
      133
    • Interesting camera, but not for my kind of photography
      32
    • I'm not interested
      36


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2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I finally decided to buy the M10M and just placed the order, should get it sometime mid February! Had to sell my MP & M9P to fund it, so I'll be reducing my gear to two cameras (M4 for color, Monochrom for B&W).  

Still wish the M10M came in silver or black paint instead and had the fake film lever of the M10D as it makes holding the camera so much easier....but oh well you can't have everything. Looking forward to trying it out! 

 

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14 hours ago, ChicagoMatthew said:

Idk. I think he also said each have their place... when he opened with “if I’m shooting bw, I’m shooting film.” So for him, the BW is a film medium and, I assume when he shoots color it’s digital. Which makes sense to me... BW looks better with some grain. I recently went to a retrospective and half of the artists work was digital bw and the other half was film... The differences were stark... the film just looked better.

Also, since it was referenced, Salgados pre-digital work is much much much better than his newer work. Content aside, it just doesn’t look as good. IMO, of course. 

Maybe Saldago is much better now, but back then I opened his book with ice and penguins it was next to gross. Digitally over processed.

Emulating film with any camera is self illusion. I have Monochrome book and film M photography books. Opening them side by side clears this illusion.

It just doesn’t have to be the goal, but getting good images with Monochrome itself, possible, but only very few are capable. And looking at well made gelatine silver prints will help to understand about balanced tonality.

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18 hours ago, marcg said:

Any chance of posting the links to these videos please?

 

This one is with something missing, done with tonality which I just can't see as something good.

And just ouch here:

 

And here are overblown exposures at around 11:00.

 

 

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On 1/21/2020 at 1:07 PM, otto.f said:

It was already difficult to see a difference between MM1 results - albeit very special - and M10 converted results. So, if you want serious landscape, stills, etc. would a converted SL2 image be distinguishable from an M10M result? 

MM1 at 18mp was comparable to color at 24mp.  Comparing the SL2 to the M10M is 40mp vs. 40 mp, so based on prior comparisons, the M10M will have better resolution of the finest details because there will be not interpolation of color off a bayer filter, like the SL2 will have...

That's my thought...

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25 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

MM1 at 18mp was comparable to color at 24mp.  Comparing the SL2 to the M10M is 40mp vs. 40 mp, so based on prior comparisons, the M10M will have better resolution of the finest details because there will be not interpolation of color off a bayer filter, like the SL2 will have...

That's my thought...

Yes, the lack of a color array means that the M10 Monochrom will exhibit effective resolution closer to what one might associate with a 60ish MP camera. Whether one will see that difference in print, or whether that is better aesthetically depends on a host of other factors, both personal and technical.

Jeff

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2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Yes, the lack of a color array means that the M10 Monochrom will exhibit effective resolution closer to what one might associate with a 60ish MP camera. Whether one will see that difference in print, or whether that is better aesthetically depends on a host of other factors, both personal and technical.

Jeff

Jeff, I agree on whether you will see the difference.  Using a tripod or handholding will be one difference, as is the age / resolution of the lens used, amount of light etc.  Leica says the M10M sensor is new and created specifically for this camera, but it remains unclear if it is essentially the same as the SL2 but with minor modifications.  We can probably safely assume for the moment that the two sensors behave very similar, so I would think they will react similarly at similar ISO's.

Having gone from printing M9 images (18mp) at 13x19 to M246 and SL (24mp) at 17x22 and S007 (37mp) at 17x22, I can see a difference when there is a lot of small details in the image. By see a difference, I mean at reasonable viewing distance, not magnifying glass.

For example, at the beach, the detail in the sand, the shells and the rocks are noticeable at 17x22.  Small details like very small clouds or distant objects appear sharper and more defined.  I am only talking about detail, not color rendition (or greyscale).  

The fallacy in my comment is that the S lenses are also extremely good resolvers of the very fine details.  It would be interesting to do a comparison of the M10M with the 50 APO Summicron, and the SL2 and S007 with the 70 Elmarit, all at f/8.0 or something similar.

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4 hours ago, marcg said:

Thanks – but have you inadvertently posted up two identical videos, – the first two?

No. First is where it starts. Images in this video are more less far from traditional BW I get used to in the books and on prints.

Second is same video, but it must start on image where ouch happened (half image is with banding at ISO16000)

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18 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I finally decided to buy the M10 and just placed the order, should get it sometime mid February! Had to sell my MP & M9P to fund it, so I'll be reducing my gear to two cameras (M4 for color, Monochrom for B&W).  

Still wish the M10M came in silver or black paint instead and had the fake film lever of the M10D as it makes holding the camera so much easier....but oh well you can't have everything. Looking forward to trying it out! 

The M10 Thumbie will work on the M10M. I’ll be moving mine across if I can find the spare piece of tape that is sent out with the Thumbie.

******

For me, having 40MP is nice but not the reason I waited till now to get a Monochrom. 24MP without bayer would have been fine for my A1 printing. What I wanted is the M10 form factor. I have an M-P and I could have shared batteries etc, but I prefer the M10 by some margin. The super quiet shutter is really lovely. I also wish they’d have the fake rewind lever from the M-D. It works really really well on that camera. The Thunbie will have to do.

I know I could convert from one of my colour cameras that have the resolution and the differences in acuity would be small. I wanted the limitations the M10M provides. I wanted the thought process that a camera that only shoot black and white gives you. I, like may other here, have shot and processed film for many years, even commercially but I’m no longer interested in putting those chemicals into the environment. And I am not able to set up a darkroom to print at the sizes I’d want anymore anyway.

Gordon

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On 1/23/2020 at 8:18 PM, paulmac said:

Not wanting to start or re-start the film v digital debate BUT young people who are serious about their photography and who were brought up on digital now are turning to film

Quote

NBC documentary unit Left Field has created an interesting deep dive on the renaissance of film photography in the digital age. In the short doc, the Left Field team try to figure out why the analog process—so time consuming and expensive—has seen such a strong resurgence in recent years

 

 

https://petapixel.com/2020/01/24/why-we-still-love-film-embracing-analog-photography-in-the-digital-age/

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3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The M10 Thumbie will work on the M10M. I’ll be moving mine across if I can find the spare piece of tape that is sent out with the Thumbie.

******

For me, having 40MP is nice but not the reason I waited till now to get a Monochrom. 24MP without bayer would have been fine for my A1 printing. What I wanted is the M10 form factor. I have an M-P and I could have shared batteries etc, but I prefer the M10 by some margin. The super quiet shutter is really lovely. I also wish they’d have the fake rewind lever from the M-D. It works really really well on that camera. The Thunbie will have to do.

I know I could convert from one of my colour cameras that have the resolution and the differences in acuity would be small. I wanted the limitations the M10M provides. I wanted the thought process that a camera that only shoot black and white gives you. I, like may other here, have shot and processed film for many years, even commercially but I’m no longer interested in putting those chemicals into the environment. And I am not able to set up a darkroom to print at the sizes I’d want anymore anyway.

Gordon

Exactly, actually the 40mp sensor is the only thing against it that almost made me not buy it. I'm used to shooting film, the MM1 / M9 18mp is way more than enough, and 24mp does feel like the perfect size. I'm reading some reviews that you have to keep the shutter speed higher than 1/250...which defeats the purpose of a rangefinder really...but let's see I'll have to test that for myself.

And yeah, same here...I now have the M9 and M4 and 3 lens, but always think which one should I use etc...so with the MM it makes it very clear. For color, I shot the M4, for B&W, the MM. The summicron 35mm 8 elements / summilux 50mm v1 go with the MM, and the summicron 50mm stays in the M4.

My favorite digital Leica was by far the MM1, so I've been waiting for this new MM for ages :) 

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37 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Exactly, actually the 40mp sensor is the only thing against it that almost made me not buy it. I'm used to shooting film, the MM1 / M9 18mp is way more than enough, and 24mp does feel like the perfect size. I'm reading some reviews that you have to keep the shutter speed higher than 1/250...which defeats the purpose of a rangefinder really...but let's see I'll have to test that for myself.

And yeah, same here...I now have the M9 and M4 and 3 lens, but always think which one should I use etc...so with the MM it makes it very clear. For color, I shot the M4, for B&W, the MM. The summicron 35mm 8 elements / summilux 50mm v1 go with the MM, and the summicron 50mm stays in the M4.

My favorite digital Leica was by far the MM1, so I've been waiting for this new MM for ages :) 

Do you plan to print larger with M10M than with M9? If not, then you can use the same shutter speed that you use on M9.

The image that I posted in "Leica M10 Monochrom Images" thread was shot with 1/60 sec (35mm). I was shooting Auto ISO with 1/2f setting, just to be on the safe side :-).

Edited by SrMi
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I received my M10M today, and it has quickly become my favorite M. I am coming from an M10, and even though they have the same name this is a completely new camera for me. Love the quite shutter, new sensor and the stealth look...now I might even understand why some users like to use black tape :)

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I am unfamiliar with the M10 cameras however I was delighted with the speed of the  M10M functions, its view finder and quick silent shutter. (quick for me coming from M Mono).  I was impressed with how quick I could frame a scene on the street , focus and shoot. Using the orange filter was useful and the 50 APO but it is good with all my lenses.

Thoroughly impressed with todays city around.     

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Stopped by Tamarkin and briefly tried their M10M in the store. Just a few shots to see general impressions, and if, as an MM1 owner, can one resist? A few casual quick impressions: 

Its very nice. Slim, even svelte. Exudes quality. Very quiet (wow). Lovely screen. Live view is quite nice, helps to nail focus. Apart from a few minor awkwardnesses, got to like it. 

I tried shooting in poor light with 35 lux to see if I could nail focus on some lens boxes about 6' away and get sharp shots - looking to see if the 40mp is too demanding? . Raised the ISO up to about 10k, 1/250 sec, and it took a couple of tries, but got it. And easier with more f-stop. Blur? The extra MP needs more shutter speed, gotten by higher ISO, which is now very clear. The older technique of low ISO and slower shutter speeds would result (for me) with slightly blurred shots. So it calls for changing shooting technique, but it looks like it handles it very well. In short, you get these massive files with higher shutter speeds, and higher ISO, and no penalties. It seems like a camera that can shoot pretty much anything. Impressive.

Upgrade over the MM1? In almost all ways, very much so. Not quirky, very refined. 

Going for it? Not yet. Its expensive, and the MM1 isn't the first tool I reach for. So for now will stay the course but it is quite tempting. 

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40 minutes ago, geoffreyg said:

Stopped by Tamarkin and briefly tried their M10M in the store. Just a few shots to see general impressions, and if, as an MM1 owner, can one resist? A few casual quick impressions: 

Its very nice. Slim, even svelte. Exudes quality. Very quiet (wow). Lovely screen. Live view is quite nice, helps to nail focus. Apart from a few minor awkwardnesses, got to like it. 

I tried shooting in poor light with 35 lux to see if I could nail focus on some lens boxes about 6' away and get sharp shots - looking to see if the 40mp is too demanding? . Raised the ISO up to about 10k, 1/250 sec, and it took a couple of tries, but got it. And easier with more f-stop. Blur? The extra MP needs more shutter speed, gotten by higher ISO, which is now very clear. The older technique of low ISO and slower shutter speeds would result (for me) with slightly blurred shots. So it calls for changing shooting technique, but it looks like it handles it very well. In short, you get these massive files with higher shutter speeds, and higher ISO, and no penalties. It seems like a camera that can shoot pretty much anything. Impressive.

Upgrade over the MM1? In almost all ways, very much so. Not quirky, very refined. 

Going for it? Not yet. Its expensive, and the MM1 isn't the first tool I reach for. So for now will stay the course but it is quite tempting. 

Shooting at 1/250 sec with 35mm (1/7f) is typically not necessary. Of course it depends on photographer, but I have yet to see camera shake blur when shooting with 1/2f (1/60 sec at 35mm, M10M).

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