Your opinion about the Leica M10 Monochrom

[Jeff S]

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19 minutes ago, Likaleica said:

I agree.  It's hard to judge any image online after it has been reduced in size and compressed, which is why I wonder how people are deciding for or against the camera based on 2MB 72dpi images on (probably) a laptop screen.  I agree also that for a purchase of this magnitude (to most of us) it is worthwhile to at least spend a couple of hours with it at the store, if not rent when that becomes available.  But, if some folks have the luxury of getting it regardless, more power to them.  From my limited experience with the camera it will not disappoint and promises to delight.

Indeed, I’ve seen some fabulous phone pics online... seriously.... but they wouldn’t necessarily hold up in larger print or with significant cropping.  Plus we each have our own styles and workflows.  I can only judge by what I can produce, with my own pics and files... in print.

Jeff

Edited January 21, 2020 by Jeff S

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Hallo,

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[darylgo]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I tried the S006 for a week , but found it limited for my handheld needs in other than good daylight (and the slow zoom made it worse). I’m not a frequent tripod user. The S007 would provide a broader shooting envelope, and b/w tones might still benefit from its larger sensor compared to my M9 Monochrom, which I didn’t own when I tested the S006.  But I’d have to try and compare for myself, especially since I don’t make monster size prints.  In any event, my near term focus will be learning my new SL2 kit, assuming I get the camera body at some point.

Jeff

S006 + 70 = SL2 price.  The zoom is good for a zoom, the primes have the sparkle.  

[Jeff S]

19 minutes ago, darylgo said:

S006 + 70 = SL2 price.  The zoom is good for a zoom, the primes have the sparkle.  

I tried the S zoom over two years ago... never again.... now have better SL zooms, with OIS.  Otherwise, I stick with primes.  I wouldn’t consider the S007/70 unless it could be had for a ridiculously low price. No real need or rush for now.  If I can’t make worthy pics/prints using an MM1, M10 and SL2 (soon), the problem is me.

Jeff

[asiafish]

I'm very interested, but since my M9 Monochrom already gives me everything I want in a black and white camera I doubt I'll be buying this one.

I think we've long since passed the point of "good enough" for my requirements.  I rarely, if ever print larger than 11X14 and generally don't crop much.  I can see going out with this camera and just a 28mm lens then cropping to get other "focal lengths", but call me old-fashioned, I just prefer working with different lenses.  Cropping can give the field of view, but it cannot replicate the depth of field, compression effects or the rendering of a particular lens.

[Enrique Santa]

I would love to own a Leica M and this model will be perfect for me but....I simply can't afford it, but I will keep on dreaming with it😊

[Eoin]

I'm loving the M10 for the past 2.5 years, best handling Digital Leica M by far.

I have held off looking for a Monochrome until the M10M was released exactly for the reason above. However the eye watering price tag has made me wonder if I really want to drop €8200 for pure B&W.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the technology and the capabilities native B&W sensors offer, but the colour M10's files convert to B&W with lovely results. I might wait until the M11 is released and take stock of what it offers, upgrade to that, or pick up a 2nd hand M10M for significantly less than the current asking price.

By then, perhaps the M11 will touch the 10K mark and I'll be questioning if I even need 40 - 60 Mpx upgrade or has Leica just simply priced its self out of my realm.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by Eoin

[witness77]

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I will buy later this year. I will have to think wether I keep my M10-D as well because the file sizes are so different. A lot to consider but I am in rush. 

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[cbretteville]

It is quickly approaching ridiculous. I have been a supporter for close to two decades now and spent a lot of money feeding the Leica habit, but there is a limit. Even for me. This is beyond that. 

[FrankF]

Waiting for the color version.... A high (40-60MP) M with IBIS would really excite me.  Much less so without IBIS.

IBIS is really a need with higher MP cameras, especially if your aim is to crop the images more..... and since Sony could do it in a camera not significantly different from an M, Leica could do it.

The purpose to me of a high MP camera is to not carry another lens..... Cropability.

[davidmknoble]

After having both the original CCD Monochrom and the Monochrom 246, as well as shooting black and white film for several decades, I love the look of the monochrom - when exposed and developed properly. I also love using it with my color filters beside a Leica MP with film.

The biggest challenge I have is reversing the exposure rules - overexpose film, underexpose digital.  I do not need the extra megapixels (I print 17x22 with 24mp just fine), but I do hope that the extra pixels will lower the effect of high iso noise. I don't mind grain, but I also enjoy shooting some in deep dusk at the beach and sometimes get banding, etc.  Hoping the M10M will remove that.

Not to mention, it is finally the same size as my film cameras! Yes, I'll be trading in some things to get there, but overall can't wait!

[pedaes]

Sorry if this has been posted already somewhere, but rave review in this weeks AP https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/reviews/leica-m10-monochrom

[otto.f]

40 minutes ago, Eoin said:

colour M10's files convert to B&W with lovely results.

It was already difficult to see a difference between MM1 results - albeit very special - and M10 converted results. So, if you want serious landscape, stills, etc. would a converted SL2 image be distinguishable from an M10M result? 

[mmx_2]

I love the concept and idea, but I think it is on the step side pricewise. I did own the M246 before and it was a fantastic camera, for several reasons (too many cameras, too little time, two small children) I parted with it and has since only kept my M10. I will probably buy the M10M at some point, but definitely not in a near future.

[Jeff S]

19 hours ago, fotografr said:

 I feel strongly that the new MM3 will yield the best b&w images of any camera out there today and likely for some time to come. 

Well, if MP and sensor size determine results, then the Phase One cameras with true medium format achromatic backs, 100MP and 150MP, make the M10M seem entry level. Unfortunately price-wise, too.

https://stories.phaseone.com/exploring-the-beauty-of-black-white-iq4-150mp-achromatic/

At more realistic price points, it will be interesting to see what Sigma puts forth using the Foveon sensor.  Earlier versions, which had some significant usage limitations, nevertheless produced some of the best b/w rendering I’ve seen in digital.

We live in interesting times. I’ll keep an open mind... and believe what I can experience and see.

Jeff 

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[MJ_in_LA]

I'll offer a few observations from my experience--they might even be of use!!

I've had the M9M, which ultimately suffered sensor corrosion and I traded in for the MM246.  Loved the M9M, I tend to agree with some of the reviewers out there that it was marginally better at separating whites and very light greys than the MM246.  Shadows are wonderfully malleable,  even moderately blown highlights are gone forever on either of them.  Still, I've gotten GREAT stuff with the MM246 and have no plans to sell it--it is a great camera in its size class.

Why not the new monochrom?  Simple.  Pricing on used Phase One (P1) gear has come down so much that it competes with Leica.  No, they are not travel, street, or sports cameras, but for studio, fashion and landscape work they are wonderful.  I've been shooting an IQ250 back recently (50 MP CMOS color, 33 x 44 mm) and it clearly outperforms my M240 and SL in terms of image malleability. Carefully done b/w separations from the P1 color files are essentially equivalent to the MM246 files (e.g. Leica's 24 MP CMOS sensor without the bayer array is in my experience in the same league as the 50 MP P1 with the bayer array). I've considered the new monochrom, but am instead pursuing a P1 IQ260 achromatic back (CCD, approx. 45 x 60 mm).   I've reviewed achromatic P1 sample files, and they are genuinely impressive--I have seen nothing close to their level of highlight recovery with my MM246.

Resolution-wise, I could have stopped back with the 18 MP M9M.  I mostly only print up to Super-B (13 x 19") but even the ISO 1600 shots that I printed to that size were a real treat.   At lower ISO I can see grain etc. on-screen at high zoom factors, but the reality is that none of it is noticeable in the prints.  And yes, I have gone to bigger prints, and the files hold up well.  There are  two great photography museums near me--the Annenberg and the Getty--and there are no shortage of prints being exhibited that are no larger than 11 x 14".  So while it's nice to be able to "go big", well, good work looks good in a broad range of sizes.

In this race to pack ever more pixels into less and less sensor space, I wonder if we're not missing the boat.  Higher resolution is not what separates digital from that mythical film ideal that seems to be fading in at least my memory.  The ability to capture color and tonality over a broad range of luminance is becoming the most important thing to me.  Those days with Kodachrome 25 in my first Nikon (and Pan F in my original film M645) shaped me.   They somehow caught it all....

And as many here have lamented, I too make my living at "something else".  I'm in photography purely for the joy of it.

Happy to see that so many on the forum are genuinely focused on  doing quality work!

 

 

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[digitalfx]

Ordered mine...cant wait.

[furcafe]

On 1/20/2020 at 2:44 PM, _Olivier said:

To me there's a significant difference in shutter sounds between M9M, M10, and M10-P. I also own the Q and use it almost exclusively in quiet places were a nearly silent shutter is required (example, in quiet Tokyo subway cars where I shoot candids of passengers sitting a few feet away from me - https://www.olivierdesmet.com/tokyo-transit). I'd love to use an M when I shoot in these quiet places (I prefer IQ of M glass over Q) but I know it would lead to uncomfortable situations. 

Plenty of people I've made photographs of on the street have heard the shutter and then noticed I made an image. Both with the M9M and the M10. 

I had the M8, M9, M240, & now shoot regularly w/the M246 & M10. To be fair to the M8 & M9, the biggest source of noise was the shutter cocking after the actual exposure.  Not ideal, but better for subjects to notice you after the exposure than during & we have the "advantage" of having no such thing as a quiet subway car in any U.S. transit system.  While the M8/M9 shutter exposure sound was certainly louder than a cloth curtain Leica, I found it to be on the same level as any number of cameras w/the same Copal double-bladed design (which is most electronic cameras on the market), including film cameras like the Kyocera Contax G2 or Konica Hexar RF (not the original fixed-lens Hexar, which had a leaf shutter), & significantly quieter than a dSLR. But that shutter cocking was another matter, hence the introduction of the "discrete" cocking delay option in the M9, which I used all the time, not taking my finger off the shutter release until I made a getaway.

 

For truly quiet environments, of course, there is nothing like a mirrorless digital on electronic shutter mode.

Edited January 21, 2020 by furcafe

[PeterBrandt]

Not sure why a monochrome camera, when you can get a minimum of 4 versions of b/w from a color camera (R,G,B plus Gray) of the same picture,..... plus the extreme of the cameras cost.

[douglas ball]

I now own the second generation Monochrom which I love. Prior to that I had the original. During most of this time I also used the 240 M. It has been replaced by the SL and SL lenses.

Since acquiring the SL I have used the 246 less and less. Nevertheless I would never sell it, because when the light and conditions are right there is no match for this camera. 

In my situation I see no reason to trade up for the new model. I am very pleased that Leica is still able to offer such a camera and support their effort to create something truly unique  100%.

[Mark T]

I'm interested for sure but like the option says, it's too expensive for me. Even if I had that kind of money to spend, seriously it costs the same as a small car. And phone cameras are so good now. I'm sorry but it is way over-priced (even more than the other already over-priced digital M's).