SL2 firmware update request

[helged]

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This is a thread with specific request for SL2 FW updates, that may be read by Leica. 

Problem: When auto focus is set to AFs or AFc, focus cannot be removed from the shutter button. 

Request: Include option to decouple AF from the shutter button when in AFs or AFc mode; in these cases with AF fully controlled by the joystick. 

Comment: Many shooters prefer (for good reasons 😉) to let the thumb, via the joystick, have full control of the AF. This is common for many (most) DSLRs. On SL2, this is only possible when in MF mode. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by helged

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[thighslapper]

25 minutes ago, helged said:

Comment: Many shooters prefer (for good reasons 😉) to let the thumb, via the joystick, have full control of the AF. This is common for many (most) DSLRs. On SL2, this is only possible when in MF mode. 

Rather bizarre that back button 'AF' is available in 'MF' mode ...... I get the impression this was implemented without a great deal of logical thought .... 

[scott kirkpatrick]

But great consistency.  That is how the SL does it.

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Rather bizarre that back button 'AF' is available in 'MF' mode ...... I get the impression this was implemented without a great deal of logical thought .... 

While it is different than most other cameras, I think Leica's is a better solution.

Otherwise, you would have to have additional settings for AF-C/AF-S to specify focusing via the shutter or back button. It does not hurt to be able to acquire focus quickly, even if in MF mode (few other cameras allow that).
Leica SL has many little things like that that make it ergonomically superior to other cameras. IMO, this is one of the improvements over other cameras.

 

[Ingo]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

While it is different than most other cameras, I think Leica's is a better solution.

I completely agree. 

[SrMi]

9 hours ago, helged said:

This is a thread with specific request for SL2 FW updates, that may be read by Leica. 

Problem: When auto focus is set to AFs or AFc, focus cannot be removed from the shutter button. 

Request: Include option to decouple AF from the shutter button when in AFs or AFc mode; in these cases with AF fully controlled by the joystick. 

Comment: Many shooters prefer (for good reasons 😉) to let the thumb, via the joystick, have full control of the AF. This is common for many (most) DSLRs. On SL2, this is only possible when in MF mode. 

In MF mode you can specify to use AF-C or AF-S with back-button focusing. What functionality are you missing? 

Leica has gone through a lot of work to keep their UI simple.

Edited November 24, 2019 by SrMi

[MarkinVan]

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I like the setup with auto focus on joystick in MF mode. Now with magnification assignable to any button I will be able auto focus in with joystick, magnify with assigned button with right hand, fine tune with left hand all the while supporting front of 90-280 and keeping lens focused on subject and focus point. With SL I had to reach for the lower left button to magnify, the front of the lenses would drop losing the focus point on the subject and then I would have start again without magnification to find point and round and round it went. I think it is going to be great and the value of my 20-280 will go up tremendously as well as the sharp in focus number of keepers. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by MarkinVan

[helged]

27 minutes ago, SrMi said:

In MF mode you can specify to use AF-C or AF-S with back-button focusing. What functionality are you missing? 

Leica has gone through a lot of work to keep their UI simple.

I request an option where focussing is decoupled from the shutter button, which means that focussing is fully controlled by the joystick. This is (rather) common practice for wild life photographers, and something that I use as default on Nikon D500, D5 and D850. I don't claim this is the 'right' or 'best' setting in general, but it works very, very well after some use. That's all. And it should be easy to implement. 

Currently, the focus can be set to the joystick in MF, which is fine. You can also override AF by keeping the shutter half-pressed and adjusting the lens' focus ring, keeping the shutter half-pressed. This is fine for (quasi) static subjects, but is useless for subjects in motion. 

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, helged said:

I request an option where focussing is decoupled from the shutter button, which means that focussing is fully controlled by the joystick. This is (rather) common practice for wild life photographers, and something that I use as default on Nikon D500, D5 and D850. I don't claim this is the 'right' or 'best' setting in general, but it works very, very well after some use. That's all. And it should be easy to implement. 

Currently, the focus can be set to the joystick in MF, which is fine. You can also override AF by keeping the shutter half-pressed and adjusting the lens' focus ring, keeping the shutter half-pressed. This is fine for (quasi) static subjects, but is useless for subjects in motion. 

I use back button focus on all my cameras. Therefore, I always shoot in MF mode with SL. I do not understand what functionality I would gain if instead I would be using AF mode with focusing removed from shutter. It is the same functionality as we have it now in MF mode, isn't it?

[helged]

37 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I use back button focus on all my cameras. Therefore, I always shoot in MF mode with SL. I do not understand what functionality I would gain if instead I would be using AF mode with focusing removed from shutter. It is the same functionality as we have it now in MF mode, isn't it?

No.

In AFs and AFc, the focus happens when you press the shutter. I would rather control the focus myself, via the joystick, and take photos without letting the shutter override my focus point. This means I can focus and freely recompose, take photos without letting the shutter button get the last word. And if the subject is out of focus, I can lift the finger from the shutter, wait until the focus is on the subject, and start to take images when the subject is back in focus. I can also keep the focus fixed, despite the subject may move a little. In short; I want to fully control the focussing, helped by the cameras various focus options. See e.g. from about 3:15 in the video here: https://backcountrygallery.com/af-on-and-back-button-autofocus/. Again, I don't claim this is the 'best' way to focus. But I love it. As does all but one of my photographing friends...

[LocalHero1953]

8 minutes ago, helged said:

No.

In AFs and AFc, the focus happens when you press the shutter. I would rather control the focus myself, via the joystick, and take photos without letting the shutter override my focus point. This means I can focus and freely recompose, take photos without letting the shutter button get the last word. And if the subject is out of focus, I can lift the finger from the shutter, wait until the focus is on the subject, and start to take images when the subject is back in focus. I can also keep the focus fixed, despite the subject may move a little. In short; I want to fully control the focussing, helped by the cameras various focus options. See e.g. from about 3:15 in the video here: https://backcountrygallery.com/af-on-and-back-button-autofocus/. Again, I don't claim this is the 'best' way to focus. But I love it. As does all but one of my photographing friends...

Isn't this what MF with joystick/backbutton focusing actually is? You control focus entirely yourself, and it's detached from the shutter button.

[helged]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Isn't this what MF with joystick/backbutton focusing actually is? You control focus entirely yourself, and it's detached from the shutter button.

Correct. But it doesn't work with AFs or AFc; here the shutter takes control over the focusing. That the shutter has the final word wrt focusing drove me nuts with the CL, so I sold that system.... 

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, helged said:

Correct. But it doesn't work with AFs or AFc; here the shutter takes control over the focusing. That the shutter has the final word wrt focusing drove me nuts with the CL, so I sold that system.... 

Yes, I can see that with AFc or AFs. But why not just switch to MF and use the joystick?
And, yes, I know you can't do it with the CL, but you can with the SL - it sounds like you can with the SL2 as well.

Edited November 24, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[SrMi]

14 minutes ago, helged said:

No.

In AFs and AFc, the focus happens when you press the shutter. I would rather control the focus myself, via the joystick, and take photos without letting the shutter override my focus point. This means I can focus and freely recompose, take photos without letting the shutter button get the last word. And if the subject is out of focus, I can lift the finger from the shutter, wait until the focus is on the subject, and start to take images when the subject is back in focus. I can also keep the focus fixed, despite the subject may move a little. In short; I want to fully control the focussing, helped by the cameras various focus options. See e.g. from about 3:15 in the video here: https://backcountrygallery.com/af-on-and-back-button-autofocus/. Again, I don't claim this is the 'best' way to focus. But I love it. As does all but one of my photographing friends...

You are misunderstanding me. I wrote that I use back button focus all the time, no need to explain why it is good. IMO, it is the best way to focus.

Leica does it differently than other cameras.

For back button-focusing:

- On, e.g., Nikon, you disable focusing from shutter, enable it on AF-ON. You do it separately for AF-S and AF-C

- On Leica you switch to manual focus.

What is apparently missing (I was wrong to assume that there is an option) is AF-C focusing with the back button. In MF mode only AF-S is available. 

 

 

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes, I can see that with AFc or AFs. But why not just switch to MF and use the joystick?
And, yes, I know you can't do it with the CL, but you can with the SL - it sounds like you can with the SL2 as well.

It is now kind of possible with CL: you can assign AF-L to Fn button. It is a bit awkward, though.

[LocalHero1953]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

It is now kind of possible with CL: you can assign AF-L to Fn button. It is a bit awkward, though.

I know, but I want the Fn button for other things; and it's not exactly the same as back button focusing anyway - each time you want to focus you have to unlock, get AF again and then lock again

Edited November 24, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I know, but I want the Fn button for other things

Yeah, Leica has bit of troubled relation with back-button focusing, see the latest issue with Q2 as well.

[helged]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

You are misunderstanding me. I wrote that I use back button focus all the time, no need to explain why it is good. IMO, it is the best way to focus.

Leica does it differently than other cameras.

For back button-focusing:

- On, e.g., Nikon, you disable focusing from shutter, enable it on AF-ON. You do it separately for AF-S and AF-C

- On Leica you switch to manual focus.

What is apparently missing (I was wrong to assume that there is an option) is AF-C focusing with the back button. In MF mode only AF-S is available. 

 

 

Yes, then we agree (I am partly word blind, so misunderstandings happen...). 

Yes, I want to have AFs and AFc assigned to the joystick, without letting the shutter doing the job blindly based on what is under the focus cross or whatever... 

That's all. Users may or may not use the option, but I certainly would... 

 

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[helged]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I know, but I want the Fn button for other things; and it's not exactly the same as back button focusing anyway - each time you want to focus you have to unlock, get AF again and then lock again

Fine. But to have this option doesn't mean you have to use it... 

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, helged said:

Yes, then we agree (I am partly word blind, so misunderstandings happen...). 

Yes, I want to have AFs and AFc assigned to the joystick, without letting the shutter doing the job blindly based on what is under the focus cross or whatever... 

That's all. Users may or may not use the option, but I certainly would... 

 

That is actually what happens. Or rather it is AFs assigned to the joystick. Each press of the joystick sets the focus, and it stays there until you press again, or turn the focus ring. Pressing the shutter button has no effect.