SL2 firmware update request

[JeffWright]

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On 11/25/2019 at 11:42 AM, sdworman said:

Please put back the preview feature that is in the original SL that gives you depth of field preview, also shutter speed preview. I do a lot of long exposures and this is essential for me. Thank you.

+1. Sort of dumbfounded that this isn't available.

[JeffWright]

On 11/24/2019 at 2:57 PM, SrMi said:

Nobody is arguing (yet?) that back-button focus (BBF) is the best way to focus.

To use BBF on SL/SL2 you switch to MF. MF mode disconnects focusing from shutter and enables BBF. Unfortunately, only AF-S is possible with BBF on SL/SL2. Not much an issue for me as I do not use AF-C on SL.

Uh, spoiler here. On the SL2 1.0 firmware you can assign either AFs or AFc to the joystick press.

Functionally this doesn't seem different to me as the user from how my Canon, Nikon (F5 was the last one!), Fuji GFX or Panasonic S1R achieve BB focus, except the joystick isn't labelled 'AF-ON". It might be nice to be able to assign BBF to other buttons, I suppose.

Edited December 7, 2019 by JeffWright

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[chicagophoto]

11 minutes ago, JeffWright said:

Uh, spoiler here. On the SL2 1.0 firmware you can assign either AFs or AFc to the joystick press.

Functionally this doesn't seem different to me as the user from how my Canon, Nikon (F5 was the last one!), Fuji GFX or Panasonic S1R achieve BB focus, except the joystick isn't labelled 'AF-ON". It might be nice to be able to assign BBF to other buttons, I suppose.

But the shutter release is still engaged to focus, overriding the joystick as you push the shutter. On just about everything other camera that have an option for the shutter release when using back button focus and those are Shutter release or shutter focus. Shutter release would let you take a picture even if your out of focus and shutter focus gives priority to the image being in focus before the shutter will release. Leica needs to offer this as an option so the shutter is independent of the joystick when focusing

[SrMi]

17 minutes ago, JeffWright said:

Uh, spoiler here. On the SL2 1.0 firmware you can assign either AFs or AFc to the joystick press.

Functionally this doesn't seem different to me as the user from how my Canon, Nikon (F5 was the last one!), Fuji GFX or Panasonic S1R achieve BB focus, except the joystick isn't labelled 'AF-ON". It might be nice to be able to assign BBF to other buttons, I suppose.

I was so wrong in this thread :-(. Regarding AFC, I corrected myself in post #32.

I was also wrong to claim that shutter button half-press stops AFC with back-button focusing (pretty sure I tried it out before posting, but it works now).

Oh well ...

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, chicagophoto said:

But the shutter release is still engaged to focus, overriding the joystick as you push the shutter. On just about everything other camera that have an option for the shutter release when using back button focus and those are Shutter release or shutter focus. Shutter release would let you take a picture even if your out of focus and shutter focus gives priority to the image being in focus before the shutter will release. Leica needs to offer this as an option so the shutter is independent of the joystick when focusing

You have to switch to MF to use back button focusing (BBF). In MF mode, the shutter release is not engaged to focus, hence BBF.

Most manufacturers allow to explicitly disable focusing with the shutter button, in AFC and AFS mode. In MF mode, they will enable you to specify AFC or AFS for BBF. Leica is more straightforward: you choose MF when you want to use BBF, and you can specify AFC or AFS mode.

Shutter release and focus priorities are independent of BBF. They specify if the camera should take a picture if the subject is not in focus, both for BBF and for focusing with the shutter button.

I hope I got it right this time.

[chicagophoto]

5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

You have to switch to MF to use back button focusing (BBF). In MF mode, the shutter release is not engaged to focus, hence BBF.

Most manufacturers allow to explicitly disable focusing with the shutter button, in AFC and AFS mode. In MF mode, they will enable you to specify AFC or AFS for BBF. Leica is more straightforward: you choose MF when you want to use BBF, and you can specify AFC or AFS mode.

Shutter release and focus priorities are independent of BBF. They specify if the camera should take a picture if the subject is not in focus, both for BBF and for focusing with the shutter button.

I hope I got it right this time.

 On an SL or SL2 if you have the focus mode set to MF then the shutter release does not focus, only the joystick, but if your focus mode is AFS or AFC and you use the joystick for BBF , the shutter focus is still engaged and when you half press the shutter it changes focus. Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji all allow you to disengage the shutter to activate focus and only use the back button to focus and the shutter only fires the camera.

[SrMi]

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21 minutes ago, chicagophoto said:

 On an SL or SL2 if you have the focus mode set to MF then the shutter release does not focus, only the joystick, but if your focus mode is AFS or AFC and you use the joystick for BBF , the shutter focus is still engaged and when you half press the shutter it changes focus. Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji all allow you to disengage the shutter to activate focus and only use the back button to focus and the shutter only fires the camera.

Yes, that is correct. I do not see an advantage of disengaging shutter in AFC or AFS mode vs using MF mode, except that it allows quicker switching between AFC and AFS mode while using BBF.

[JeffWright]

3 hours ago, chicagophoto said:

But the shutter release is still engaged to focus, overriding the joystick as you push the shutter. On just about everything other camera that have an option for the shutter release when using back button focus and those are Shutter release or shutter focus. Shutter release would let you take a picture even if your out of focus and shutter focus gives priority to the image being in focus before the shutter will release. Leica needs to offer this as an option so the shutter is independent of the joystick when focusing

Well I'm an idiot--I wrote the post below before rereading your post....you basically say the same thing. Maybe this will help someone else....

That actually isn't correct, because you set up BBF on the SL/SL2 by changing to manual focus mode and assigning the focus mode to the joy stick. Overall, you must use BBF differently than I do, so I understand your complaint. I keep my thumb on the joystick after I've achieved desired focus in AFs, or until shutter release in AFc. Often I also keep my finger on shutter half pressed for AF lock. This does not change the focus point. I use all of my cameras the same way, including Panasonic, Fuji GFX, and until recently the Leica S.

Down side to current Leica design is it's not fast to switch from AFs to AFc-or I haven't figured out an intuitive way yet.

Edited December 7, 2019 by JeffWright

[jrp]

1.0  still  seems to be late beta quality firmware. I manage to generate DNGs where Lightroom identifies the lens, but cannot find the right lens correction to apply. The handling of profiles (setting / updating them) seems v counterintuitive. They have tried to make the use of dual slots intuition but it isn’t. (Backup should be the default.). There should be no need to maintain a Wi-fi connection just for keeping track of gps coordinates. Further refinement required. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 12/8/2019 at 5:12 AM, chicagophoto said:

 On an SL or SL2 if you have the focus mode set to MF then the shutter release does not focus, only the joystick, but if your focus mode is AFS or AFC and you use the joystick for BBF , the shutter focus is still engaged and when you half press the shutter it changes focus. Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji all allow you to disengage the shutter to activate focus and only use the back button to focus and the shutter only fires the camera.

You really need to let go of how "Nikon does it". It's dead simple to get the same functionality on the SL2. The functionality is NOT the same as the SL. You have more options on the new camera.

If you set SAF or CAF in the focus mode you get shutter coupled AF. You can NOT get decoupled AF in these modes. Decoupled AF is via MANUAL FOCUS mode.

If you set MF in the drive mode you get back button AF with the joystick. You can set the joystick to either be SAF or CAF whilst in MF mode, using the *customise controls* menu.

To set this up:

1. Go to the *customise controls* section of the menu. Under *JOYSTICK* choose  *MF MODE*. The select whether you want SAF or CAF with the Joystick press.

2. Select *MF* on the focus mode (either in the menu or by touch on the quick menu screen).

3. Voila!!! You have decoupled AF with a choice of either SAF or CAF.

It's really not that hard.

If you want to set a quick way to switch between SAF and CAF while using BBF then you set a profile for each which is easily assignable to almost any button on the camera.

Gordon

Edited December 8, 2019 by FlashGordonPhotography

[digitalfx]

22 hours ago, jrp said:

 They have tried to make the use of dual slots intuition but it isn’t. (Backup should be the default.). There should be no need to maintain a Wi-fi connection just for keeping track of gps coordinates. Further refinement required. 

No, backup should not be default, it should be an option as it is. Selecting the option is quite simple...how could they make it easier?

But if you prefer it to be default, its very simple...add it to your profile.

The camera doesn't have a GPS receiver.

[SrMi]

30 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

No, backup should not be default, it should be an option as it is. Selecting the option is quite simple...how could they make it easier?

But if you prefer it to be default, its very simple...add it to your profile.

The camera doesn't have a GPS receiver.

Which dual slot operation should be default in your opinion (default assumes that there are options)? I prefer the current default (overflow).

Since SL2 does not have GPS it is important that the phone can communicate the GPS coordinates. This is done efficiently via LE Bluetooth, not with Wi-fi.

[chicagophoto]

2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

You really need to let go of how "Nikon does it". It's dead simple to get the same functionality on the SL2. The functionality is NOT the same as the SL. You have more options on the new camera.

If you set SAF or CAF in the focus mode you get shutter coupled AF. You can NOT get decoupled AF in these modes. Decoupled AF is via MANUAL FOCUS mode.

If you set MF in the drive mode you get back button AF with the joystick. You can set the joystick to either be SAF or CAF whilst in MF mode, using the *customise controls* menu.

To set this up:

1. Go to the *customise controls* section of the menu. Under *JOYSTICK* choose  *MF MODE*. The select whether you want SAF or CAF with the Joystick press.

2. Select *MF* on the focus mode (either in the menu or by touch on the quick menu screen).

3. Voila!!! You have decoupled AF with a choice of either SAF or CAF.

It's really not that hard.

If you want to set a quick way to switch between SAF and CAF while using BBF then you set a profile for each which is easily assignable to almost any button on the camera.

Gordon

Got it thanks

[jrp]

2 hours ago, digitalfx said:

No, backup should not be default, it should be an option as it is. Selecting the option is quite simple...how could they make it easier?

But if you prefer it to be default, its very simple...add it to your profile.

I have to think hard about whether “plus” means “both” or “and then”. 
I also find setting profiles a bit fiddly. I’d have expected a “save current setting as” setting and “load settings” (ie, profile).

[jrp]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:Since SL2 does not have GPS it is important that the phone can communicate the GPS coordinates. This is done efficiently via LE Bluetooth, not with Wi-fi.

In my case, when I fire up Leica Fotos it makes a Bluetooth connection and the proceeds to make a Wi-fi connection. Recently, the blue light at the back flashes. 

[digitalfx]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Which dual slot operation should be default in your opinion (default assumes that there are options)? I prefer the current default (overflow).

Since SL2 does not have GPS it is important that the phone can communicate the GPS coordinates. This is done efficiently via LE Bluetooth, not with Wi-fi.

IMO the current default is typical and expected. Backup should be the option

RE: GPS- I haven't dug in to see what is happening, but would assume its using both

45 minutes ago, jrp said:

I have to think hard about whether “plus” means “both” or “and then”. 
I also find setting profiles a bit fiddly. I’d have expected a “save current setting as” setting and “load settings” (ie, profile).

Agree, the nomenclature is confusing...I think thats due to the heritage of the camera rather than the FW being half baked.

Regarding setting profiles...this is consistent with all Leica cameras, so I wouldn't expect much of a change.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, digitalfx said:

IMO the current default is typical and expected. Backup should be the option

RE: GPS- I haven't dug in to see what is happening, but would assume its using both

Leica is not yet using Bluetooth to geotag photos. They have announced it for a future update.

[chicagophoto]

On 11/24/2019 at 2:12 AM, helged said:

This is a thread with specific request for SL2 FW updates, that may be read by Leica. 

Problem: When auto focus is set to AFs or AFc, focus cannot be removed from the shutter button. 

Request: Include option to decouple AF from the shutter button when in AFs or AFc mode; in these cases with AF fully controlled by the joystick. 

Comment: Many shooters prefer (for good reasons 😉) to let the thumb, via the joystick, have full control of the AF. This is common for many (most) DSLRs. On SL2, this is only possible when in MF mode. 

I was wondering to how to implement bbf and another user posted this info on this board and with an SL2 it indeed works

You really need to let go of how "Nikon does it". It's dead simple to get the same functionality on the SL2. The functionality is NOT the same as the SL. You have more options on the new camera.

If you set SAF or CAF in the focus mode you get shutter coupled AF. You can NOT get decoupled AF in these modes. Decoupled AF is via MANUAL FOCUS mode.

If you set MF in the drive mode you get back button AF with the joystick. You can set the joystick to either be SAF or CAF whilst in MF mode, using the *customise controls* menu.

To set this up:

1. Go to the *customise controls* section of the menu. Under *JOYSTICK* choose  *MF MODE*. The select whether you want SAF or CAF with the Joystick press.

2. Select *MF* on the focus mode (either in the menu or by touch on the quick menu screen).

3. Voila!!! You have decoupled AF with a choice of either SAF or CAF.

It's really not that hard.

If you want to set a quick way to switch between SAF and CAF while using BBF then you set a profile for each which is easily assignable to almost any button on the camera.

Gordon

[Arrow]

It is obviously hard for the Af to grab focus on red surfaces in low contrasty light situations. My SL Summicron 90 is hunting endlessly in Afs mode. Intelligent Af works at least after hunting for a while on the same subject. Have not figured out, what "intelligent Af" actually implies  

Dim shadow areas in general appear to be critical for the Af.

Have not tried with other lenses. However, if there is a way to increase the Af contrast detection for dim conditions, it would be welcome  

Edited December 13, 2019 by Arrow

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[helged]

1 hour ago, Arrow said:

It is obviously hard for the Af to grab focus on red surfaces in low contrasty light situations. My SL Summicron 90 is hunting endlessly in Afs mode. Intelligent Af works at least after hunting for a while on the same subject. Have not figured out, what "intelligent Af" actually implies  

Dim shadow areas in general appear to be critical for the Af.

Have not tried with other lenses. However, if there is a way to increase the Af contrast detection for dim conditions, it would be welcome  

There is an option to activate the "AF Assist Lamp" (Camera Settings -> AF Assist Lamp -> On). Should work at shortish distances.