Image quality comparison between Hasselblad X1D II and Leica SL2

[helged]

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6 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

It also has almost no coma. An excellent Astro lens.

Thanks! The SL16-35 is superb in most ways, but not as an astro lens; it has quite some coma/astigmatism. 

I have a Sigma 14mm 1.8 Art, but it took me three copies to find an excellent one, almost without coma/astigmatism wide open. The others were not-that-good. So variations between the copies (may) exist. I don't say this is the case for the Sigma 14-24 f2.8, but it is possibly something to check after a purchase. And with Gordon's experience, the standard to look for is a

50 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

really really good

lens...

My experience with the Sigma 14mm f1.8 Art les: 

 

[Tailwagger]

23 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Trusting people and their recommendations isn't just a question of believing them because you like them or because of their qualifications*. It's because you have had a chance to compare their judgement with yours; if they match, preferably on several occasions, then you can trust their judgement and recommendations going forward. Anything else is just a matter of faith, which is no basis for spending large amounts of money. There are a small number of people in the infosphere whose recommendations I trust, because I've seen their opinions on kit I own and they coincide with mine.

 

* nor because they happen to be pros. Pros are pros because they're in it for the money. Amateurs are in it for the love of it (by definition). They have different needs and criteria for judging kit. Both can have similar levels of experience and can make valid judgements and useful recommendations.

So very true! Back when my constitution could handle such things, I always looked to Robert Parker to tell me what I should sip. None of the other wine publications lined up with my taste buds quite as well as he, at least when it came to Bordeaux, though not so much much when talking about domestics.

The good news in our sphere is that as long as you have no pressing need to be the first on you block to own one, there are plenty of avenues for self reviewing.  Viewing output on various forums and photo sites, picking up a demo and playing with it and of course renting for a day of shooting. Reviews can be very useful for pointing subtle things out, but they are only one data point and frankly can lead you astray if you're not careful. 

For example, a number of reviewers I respect touted the new SL2 UI/menu system, 4 button thing excepted.  Personally, initially I detested the SL2s UI.  After a few days, I now grudgingly accept it. I found it confusing, some things are touch, some things aren't. Having gotten used to the X1D, it took me a while to realize that the joy stick was a primary way to navigate the menus. I tried to reprogram buttons assuming that that was handled somewhere in the user settings of the menu like every other camera Ive ever owned. After rotating through them several times, uttering a few less than kind words, I finally did the RTFM thing and found that one has to press Func. Perhaps some got all this immediately, but I frankly have struggled with the options and their location, something I never had to contend with either with the Ms or Q and most definitely not with the X1D.

Now, if menu organization was a first order concern of mine, I might be truly upset, but it isn't. So while I continue to have respect for those L-reviewers, I now understand that this is an area, which were it crucial, I wouldn't value their opinion very much.

[Guest]

On 12/2/2019 at 5:02 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The Sigma 14-24 f2.8 for L mount is really really good and about a third of the SL16-35. It's sharp to the corners wide open and has good colour. It has some distortion though so probably not an formal architecture lens without a Lightroom profile. I got one to use while my 16-35 is in for repair (user error). Now I think I'll keep it for travel and other uses. I really like it. It also has almost no coma. An excellent Astro lens.

Gordon

I also bought the Sigma 14-24mm f2.8 today.

I will still take a look at the Panasonic 16-35mm f4 as well when that becomes available in January as it is 300g lighter...

And obviously the Leica 21mm even though 2021 still seems light years away... 

[gpwhite]

On 11/30/2019 at 9:27 PM, Chaemono said:

Wide open they are a bit soft.  The only excellent in terms of sharpness and bokeh seems to be 80/1.9.  And I'm not even sure how much CA/PF it shows.  I'll likely rent the X1D II with the 90/3.2 and compare it to the 75 Summicron-SL on the SL2.  I used this lens before and it won't be a match for the SL Summicron, I'm afraid.  The real cheapo one, though, is the 45/3.5.

If you appreciate the 80/1.9, I expect you will find the 65/2.8 to be very special vs any other lens.  

[megamanex]

Here is a pretty similar comparison between the SL2 with the 24-90 and the X1D with the 45mm at the same ISO and roughly similar angles.

The grain is a little bit more visible in the SL2 but overall pretty similar sharpness and better CA handling on the SL zoom.

I own both and I'd say that I could use either one or the other in a pinch.

 

The attached image is a heavily compressed 1:1 comparison for this forum at 100% zoom.

 

RAW files are located at the link below for comparison:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5t3eu6hwul7cj1d/AAAENcvOFBksQNFM4paEdOMAa?dl=0

 

 

 

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[Fedro]

I have not done a side by side comparison but my thoughts are similar - I use both and they serve different purposes

SL2 - AF is great on the SL2 much better than its predecessor and much better than the X1D

SL2 - Zoom lenses are fabulous and what I use mostly on the SL2, X1D still to be seen

SL2 - Great to use fast M lenses too on the SL, X1D is not comparable here (yes, you can with the Novoflex adaptor, but ..)

X1D - IQ wise my choice goes with the X1D, just about, maybe I just prefer the look but I find the pictures cleaner of grain, especially at high ISO, and with more crisp details (which I love for landscapes).

X1D - I also find that while AWB is much improved on the SL2 and colours are great, X1D colours are outstanding and AWB has not let me down once (even with the mark1)

X1D - while ergonomics are improved with the SL2, they are no match for the X1D. May be the shape of my hands, but I prefer to carry X1D and 80 than SL2 (even with one of the crons), my hands don't get nearly as tired/sore

Edited December 17, 2019 by Fedro

[JamesBarry]

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On 12/2/2019 at 10:02 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The Sigma 14-24 f2.8 for L mount is really really good and about a third of the SL16-35. It's sharp to the corners wide open and has good colour. It has some distortion though so probably not an formal architecture lens without a Lightroom profile. I got one to use while my 16-35 is in for repair (user error). Now I think I'll keep it for travel and other uses. I really like it. It also has almost no coma. An excellent Astro lens.

Gordon

Gordon,

How would you rate the 14-24 L mount against the Sigma 12-24 Art which I own and use with SL/adaptor for interiors?

Thanks

James

[m9photo]

Believe it or not, I put on cheap Rokinon 14/2.8 Canon mount on the SL. It's the best lens for astro (for the price which you can get for $200 used).

LENR kills the party on SL for Astro.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

8 hours ago, m9photo said:

Believe it or not, I put on cheap Rokinon 14/2.8 Canon mount on the SL. It's the best lens for astro (for the price which you can get for $200 used).

LENR kills the party on SL for Astro.

Yes it's excellent. And there's a distortion profile for it in Lightroom so it's a good interior lens as well. Hopefully a profile will come for the Sigma zoom.

Mandatory LENR is a pain on the SL. Luckily rectified on the SL2.

Gordon

 

[setuporg]

I have both and the Hasselblad is not comparable to FF.  Leica S is the proper comparison.  You will not get the defocusing, dreamy world of MF.  Sorry kids.

[Chaemono]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb setuporg:

[...] Sorry kids.

Thanks, dad. 

[thighslapper]

8 hours ago, setuporg said:

You will not get the defocusing, dreamy world of MF.  Sorry kids.

Please show some comparisons. 

I've yet to see some dreamy world MF photos, and would like to appreciate their dramatic difference from focussed non dreamy FF ones .........

[setuporg]

@thighslapper just cross the street to the S forum and see the image thread.  It's quite a norm there to get the look that only the M Noctilux 0.95 reliably achieved, and then only in the hands of someone as inspired as Overgård.  All this DR and bit range hubbub is quite meaningless since the optics is different.  The X1D also enjoys a great color map (that slowed down the bootup time of the original to 8s and the MkII to 4s), but that's the matter of opinion.  The MF vs FF difference is quite obvious IMHO, and the rise of the GFX, X1D, and continuing entrenched niche of the S easily shows that -- tons of Facebook groups for the owners of those full of pics, the new Medium Format zine, etc.  For X1D, check out the 80/1.9 photos, for the S, the S120mm is amazing.  Perhaps our ubiquitous multi-forum, multi-format @Jeff S can shed more light on this.:)

[Chaemono]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb setuporg:

The MF vs FF difference is quite obvious IMHO, and the rise of the GFX, X1D, and continuing entrenched niche of the S easily shows that -- tons of Facebook groups for the owners of those full of pics, the new Medium Format zine, etc.  For X1D, check out the 80/1.9 photos, for the S, the S120mm is amazing.

You mean MF background blur?  Mount the 75 Noctilux-M or the 90 Summilux-M on the SL2 and you get the same thing. 

[Mr.Q]

Perhaps, but not quite there probably. MF has it's own look.

 

[Chaemono]

How about the 50 Summilux-SL vs. the XCD 80/1.9?  Could anyone tell the difference in a blind test?  Some of the portraits with that Leica lens look amazing here: https://onfotolife.com/sample_image?photo_id=284350107&lens_id=374&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32.  (and I don't mean just the boobs 😂).

[Mr.Q]

9 hours ago, Chaemono said:

How about the 50 Summilux-SL vs. the XCD 80/1.9?  Could anyone tell the difference in a blind test?  Some of the portraits with that Leica lens look amazing here: https://onfotolife.com/sample_image?photo_id=284350107&lens_id=374&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32.  (and I don't mean just the boobs 😂).

With the images side by side, yes, anyone could tell the difference, especially in the tonality and depth of the shadows. 

[insideline]

On 12/21/2019 at 8:02 PM, Mr.Q said:

With the images side by side, yes, anyone could tell the difference, especially in the tonality and depth of the shadows. 

I own both systems, SL2 and XCD2 along with the Hasselblad 80 1.9 and Leica 50 SL APO, and the statement above describes just one clear advantage that the Hasselblad system has over the Leica. Then there are the much more accurate colors from the Hasselblad system which together with the greater Dynamic Range ability of the X1D2, plus that the images exhibit visibly more information both in the shadows and in the differential of minute grays and blacks along with higher level of minute details in an image from the Hasselblad system IE: very small and often invisible details that cannot be seen by the naked eye, like fine blonde facial hairs, cob webs on landscape shots that when shot with the Leica SL2 and 50 APO simply are not present, and I have shot the same image side by side to compare. I also own 29 Leica M lenses including the F1.2 Noctilux, 35mm F1.4 Double Aspherical and many more which I began buying in 1970, yet it is my Hasselblad 503CW combined with what I feel is the finest lens I own, the Hasselblad 250SA Superachromat, which for me still provides the finest images I have been able to obtain to date given the full 6X6 film size and the ability of the 250SA lens, but that is an entirely different shooting experience, and one which requires a great level of time and patience and an even greater understanding of the use of light.

Knowing what you want your camera gear to provide you for your style of shooting to me is what the real question is here. Want the ability to shoot quickly in varying conditions and locations along with an extremely large range of very fine lenses, choose the Leica SL2 with the stunning 35, 50 or 75mm SL Cron lenses or any of the very fine Leica zooms, plus the flexibility to successfully use some of the very unique M lenses IE: the F1 Noctilux which provides images I cannot duplicate with any other system, or the special rendering of the 35mm Double Aspherical, or many of the extremely nice Leica R lenses 19 V2, 28V2, 50 E60, 80 1.4, 100 Macro with ELPRO, 180 APO, 280 F4 and more. The SL2 "one body" will provide any photographer with one of the most flexible camera platforms possible with almost no downsides, and in turn quite possibly a no brainer for most of us to enjoy the art of photography with. 

 "If" one desires the best possible images, take the X1D2 along with virtually any of the XCD lenses: the 21mm, 30, 45, 65, especially the 80 1.9, 90 and the very nice 135mm/1.7 Teleconverter. You are covered from a focal length in 35mm from 17mm to 180mm. FYI, the XCD 45 lens is not a dog, it is a very fine lens especially shot from F5.6 and up, its just that the other XCD lenses are better with for me the finest possibly being the 21, 80 and 135. The X1D2 platform provides me with measurably finer and more detailed images, greater dynamic range with more accurate color over the SL2 and for me this is my priority. The SL2 however is without question to be by far the more flexible platform especially given the multitude of beautiful lenses which can be used. On a personal note I almost always choose the X1D2 system as it is not much slower to use than the SL2, yet with a little more effort the images obtained are measurably superior compared to the more flexible SL2 platform and obtaining the best possible image is my objective. In that vein if I could afford the cost I would buy the new Phase One 150MP camera system with blue ring Schneider lenses which would raise the bar of image quality even higher given the sheer size of the sensor along with even greater dynamic range.

What amazing choices we have. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by insideline
spelling mistake

[Fedro]

57 minutes ago, insideline said:

I own both systems, SL2 and XCD2 along with the Hasselblad 80 1.9 and Leica 50 SL APO, and the statement above describes just one clear advantage that the Hasselblad system has over the Leica. Then there are the much more accurate colors from the Hasselblad system which together with the greater Dynamic Range ability of the X1D2, plus that the images exhibit visibly more information both in the shadows and in the differential of minute grays and blacks along with higher level of minute details in an image from the Hasselblad system IE: very small and often invisible details that cannot be seen by the naked eye, like fine blonde facial hairs, cob webs on landscape shots that when shot with the Leica SL2 and 50 APO simply are not present, and I have shot the same image side by side to compare. I also own 29 Leica M lenses including the F1.2 Noctilux, 35mm F1.4 Double Aspherical and many more which I began buying in 1970, yet it is my Hasselblad 503CW combined with what I feel is the finest lens I own, the Hasselblad 250SA Superachromat, which for me still provides the finest images I have been able to obtain to date given the full 6X6 film size and the ability of the 250SA lens, but that is an entirely different shooting experience, and one which requires a great level of time and patience and an even greater understanding of the use of light.

Knowing what you want your camera gear to provide you for your style of shooting to me is what the real question is here. Want the ability to shoot quickly in varying conditions and locations along with an extremely large range of very fine lenses, choose the Leica SL2 with the stunning 35, 50 or 75mm SL Cron lenses or any of the very fine Leica zooms, plus the flexibility to successfully use some of the very unique M lenses IE: the F1 Noctilux which provides images I cannot duplicate with any other system, or the special rendering of the 35mm Double Aspherical, or many of the extremely nice Leica R lenses 19 V2, 28V2, 50 E60, 80 1.4, 100 Macro with ELPRO, 180 APO, 280 F4 and more. The SL2 "one body" will provide any photographer with one of the most flexible camera platforms possible with almost no downsides, and in turn quite possibly a no brainer for most of us to enjoy the art of photography with. 

 "If" one desires the best possible images, take the X1D2 along with virtually any of the XCD lenses: the 21mm, 30, 45, 65, especially the 80 1.9, 90 and the very nice 135mm/1.7 Teleconverter. You are covered from a focal length in 35mm from 17mm to 180mm. FYI, the XCD 45 lens is not a dog, it is a very fine lens especially shot from F5.6 and up, its just that the other XCD lenses are better with for me the finest possibly being the 21, 80 and 135. The X1D2 platform provides me with measurably finer and more detailed images, greater dynamic range with more accurate color over the SL2 and for me this is my priority. The SL2 however is without question to be by far the more flexible platform especially given the multitude of beautiful lenses which can be used. On a personal note I almost always choose the X1D2 system as it is not much slower to use than the SL2, yet with a little more effort the images obtained are measurably superior compared to the more flexible SL2 platform and obtaining the best possible image is my objective. In that vein if I could afford the cost I would buy the new Phase One 150MP camera system with blue ring Schneider lenses which would raise the bar of image quality even higher given the sheer size of the sensor along with even greater dynamic range.

What amazing choices we have. 

agree 100%

[meerec]

Just now, Fedro said:

agree 100%

+1

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Hallo,

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