"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[105012]

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1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

It has never been true. Diffraction is quite difficult to predict. Huge modern lenses combat these default with diffraction limited glass. Adding weight and size to the whole optics. 

...

I think you are confusing low dispersion glass with diffraction through a small aperture. The latter is not something that can be corrected for with glass or optics, it's a limitation of physics. You can make an improvement with deconvolution (using FFT), but this only gives you a stop or so... Not sure if Leica use deconvolution, but the fixed lens cameras would be obvious candidates...

[nicci78]

No confusion. Diffraction can be combat with special glass and proper algorithms

the same Wikipedia article about diffraction also talk about such glass. Just bigger optics in the end. 

 

You know what. Do not be bothered with diffraction. It is just theoretical. In reality, manufacturers took it into account and made a great job to correct it, as best as they can. Even with high resolution sensors.

With excellent glass. Feel free to use your 47MP until f/16 included. 

If they did not solved this particular problem, all 1” and m4/3 sensors would have been unusable stopped down. And smartphone sensor would not be feasible. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by nicci78

[scott kirkpatrick]

7 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Seriously, how many people produce work for bill boards?  Ok, one or two on these pages apparently, but after that?

I shot an architect's model for a construction billboard a few years ago.  We ran it a full 3 m wide.  Used an M8.

[nicci78]

You don't have to fear 47MP 24x36

Just remember that

• MF 40x53 150MP & 33x44 100MP are equivalent to 24x36 60MP pixel density wise
• APS-C 24MP are equivalent to 24x36 54MP pixel density wise
• m4/3 20MP are equivalent to 24x36 80MP pixel density wise
• 1" 20MP are equivalent to 24x36 146MP pixel density wise
• 1/2.5" 12MP (iPhone XS) are equivalent to 24x36 441MP pixel density wise

To sum up a 24x36 47MP pixel density is quite low nowadays. 

[Chaemono]

I agree, it’s not the pixel density. To paraphrase James Carville, ‘it’s the implementation, stupid.’ 😁

[caissa]

We know from users of the S1R that they are happy with the IQ of this sensor. Some even very happy. So why all this self-inflicted pain and worries about (usually not encountered) “terrible” noise ?

A bit like the self-inflicted (and unnecessary) damage to their economy of the UK Brexiters. We are living in strange times ...

Edited September 16, 2019 by caissa

[mgrayson3]

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This is a remarkable discussion. The mixture of simple truths and astonishing falsehoods makes it difficult to comment.

Chaemono, your S1R image is darker than your S1 image. The camera settings may agree, but the image shadows are darker. Your statement may be true, but you can't make a conclusion based on those images.

Nicci78. The file quality is radically different in those different examples. Diffraction can not be "corrected", any more than mass or entropy. You can be fooled into thinking it isn't there, or you can accept that the amount of resolution we need to think something is sharp is much less than a system is theoretically capable of. An image softened by diffraction can be sharpened, and it will look good, but information that is lost cannot be recovered. Almost everything we see in an image is due to the lens quality. With a superb lens, diffraction effects show up at every aperture. They are usually hidden by the lens's own imperfections wide open. The Bayer array also limits resolution, and the lack of an AA filter in most modern cameras produces artifacts from aliasing. None of these can be corrected.

Diffraction effects are functions of f-stop, not size. But the wavelength of light is 1/3 to 3/4 µ, so pixel sizes are not usefully going much smaller than 1µ. The new iPhone, for instance , has 1.4µ pixels. Supersampling, like 192kHz audio recording, helps reduce aliasing, but does not increase resolution at audible frequencies.

Large optics in modern lenses stems from the need to a) limit the angle of light incident on the sensor, and b) have small and light focusing elements for quick AF. Symmetric design tech cam lenses, like the Schneider Kreutznachs, are tiny because they ignore both of those. Until the IQ4150, this caused problems for large digital sensors. The Rodenstock lenses are larger because they try for less acute incidence angles.

The nugget of truth? It is, indeed, the implementation. But implementations are subject to physical laws.

Matt

[99p]

I really hope Leica pull a rabbit out the hat and not a dodo with the SL2. As much as I don't want the temptation to upgrade, I also don't want it to be a disappointment. I think the SL line has great potential if Leica start to innovate rather than play catch-up with the leaders of the mirrorless market.

[ron777]

12 minutes ago, 99p said:

I really hope Leica pull a rabbit out the hat and not a dodo with the SL2. As much as I don't want the temptation to upgrade, I also don't want it to be a disappointment. I think the SL line has great potential if Leica start to innovate rather than play catch-up with the leaders of the mirrorless market.

Out of pure curiosity, what do you envision the SL2 could provide that isn't already available on other cameras, besides the red dot?

Edited September 16, 2019 by ron777

[ron777]

8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The 41mp Nokia is already 6 years old.  And you already have links to upcoming 64 and 108mp capable phone cameras.

https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-p20-pro-vs-lumia-1020-857050/

Jeff

Thanks for the heads-up, I hadn't been aware of its existence but, then again, I am not a proponent of cellphone photography.

[caissa]

Leica is reluctant. So even if they had a rabbit (and I definitely doubt it), they would not use it ...

In military battles the “leaders” are not in the front row (too risky) but way behind the lines (in safety).  ✌️👍

Edited September 16, 2019 by caissa

[Chaemono]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb ron777:

...what do you envision the SL2 could provide that isn't already available on other cameras, besides the red dot?

My guess is that the SL2 will come with two red dots for those who really like to indulge in the brand. 

vor 3 Minuten schrieb caissa:

Leica is reluctant. So even if they had a rabbit (and I definitely doubt it), they would not use it ...

They could use it, though, as long as they don’t skin it for its fur afterwards. 

[99p]

12 minutes ago, ron777 said:

Out of pure curiosity, what do you envision the SL2 could provide that isn't already available on other cameras, besides the red dot?

That's for Leica to figure out but right now I'd be happy if they just caught up with the SL2. Better AF (CAF + face/eye tracking), customisable AF point and IBIS are a few things I'd like to see.

[sillbeers15]

27 minutes ago, ron777 said:

Out of pure curiosity, what do you envision the SL2 could provide that isn't already available on other cameras, besides the red dot?

A progressive upgraded sensor over the SL’s 24MPx (need not be highest in Pixel count) that has good DR with a processor to match in speed to generate good AF-C tracking capability that is reliable by industry standard. Continue the SL’s user interface and common flash protocol as S1/R.

[ron777]

So, you are essentially wishing for Leica to catch up with what have become industry standards.

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb ron777:

Out of pure curiosity, what do you envision the SL2 could provide that isn't already available on other cameras, besides the red dot?

I wish for better DR and more malleable files than what the S1R and the S1 offer. 

[Donzo98]

4 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I wish for better DR and more malleable files than what the S1R and the S1 offer. 

Really?? Never would have guessed that... LOL.

[sillbeers15]

34 minutes ago, ron777 said:

So, you are essentially wishing for Leica to catch up with what have become industry standards.

I am referring specifically to AF-C tracking capability.

[ron777]

1 hour ago, Donzo98 said:

Really?? Never would have guessed that... LOL.

 

My original question was, what could Leica provide in the SL2 that isn't already available on other manufacturer's exiting cameras.  I guess the answer is, nothing.

Edited September 16, 2019 by ron777

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Chaemono]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb ron777:

 

My original question was, what could Leica provide in the SL2 that isn't already available on other manufacturer's exiting cameras.  I guess the answer is, nothing.

The answer is better DR and more malleable files. I’ll start a thread to compare and post links to the RAW files. The S1R can’t even match the CL so I’m confident.