007 vs Hassy x1-D

[Vieri]

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1 hour ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

... 

I think you keep referring the GFX100 as a camera with no clear direction and trying to mark it as a toy for rich amateur is not that objective, remember this is just about the same size as a 1Dx, and it's even lighter....

 

No, I am not "keeping doing" anything, I just listed possible uses for a camera and listed my reasons why the GFX 100 is not, IMHO, the best tool for the job for any of the photographic applications I listed. You listed features, and I completely agree that the GFX 100 is a technology marvel, but you didn't refute any of my points, so far at least 

Best regards,

Vieri

[xiaubauu2009]

9 minutes ago, Vieri said:

No, I am not "keeping doing" anything, I just listed possible uses for a camera and listed my reasons why the GFX 100 is not, IMHO, the best tool for the job for any of the photographic applications I listed. You listed features, and I completely agree that the GFX 100 is a technology marvel, but you didn't refute any of my points, so far at least 

Best regards,

Vieri

Cause the point you made is all your view and it is already pretty clear that you think GFX is a pointless camera they serve no direction and just a collection of so called feature. I am not to refute that, I am just wanting you to be a bit more objective about things  perhaps that just too hard to ask  

Anyway, it is you who in your post that keep banging on about that how unclear the gfx100 uses are.

I will leave it at that and be grateful that there some interesting product coming out  for us. 

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[Vieri]

4 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

Cause the point you made is all your view and it is already pretty clear that you think GFX is a pointless camera they serve no direction and just a collection of so called feature. I am not to refute that, I am just wanting you to be a bit more objective about things  perhaps that just too hard to ask  

Anyway, it is you who in your post that keep banging on about that how unclear the gfx100 uses are.

I will leave it at that and be grateful that there some interesting product coming out  for us. 

Again, I don't "keep" doing anything, I just posted my thoughts once and, yet again, you don't refute any of my points - which by itself kinda proves them. If the GFX 100 works for you, by all means go for it. I have been noticing for quite some time how very, very few people choose their gear with a purpose-oriented approach and I just said so - sorry if I hit a nerve, it seems that my conclusions were even more right than I thought they would be 

Best regards,

Vieri

Edited June 20, 2019 by Vieri

[xiaubauu2009]

Just now, Vieri said:

Again, I don't "keep" doing anything, I just posted my thoughts once and, yet again, you don't refute any of my points - which by itself kinda proves them. If the GFX 100 works for you, by all means go for it. I have been noticing for quite some time how very, very few people choose their gear with a purpose-oriented approach and I just said so - sorry if I hit a nerve, it seems that my conclusions were even more right than I thought they would be 

Best regards,

Vieri

Huh?

[Fedro]

7 hours ago, NW67 said:

I know this is the Leica Forum but I also know quite a few people on here have the original X1D. So my question to those guys is this

what would be a good 2 XQD lens starter kit with landscape and portraiture in mind?

neil

80 1.9 for portraits, either 21 or 30 for landscape depending on how much you like really wide (the 21 is equivalent to 16.6, the 30 to 24mm)

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Fedro said:

80 1.9 for portraits, either 21 or 30 for landscape depending on how much you like really wide (the 21 is equivalent to 16.6, the 30 to 24mm)

I have the S30 which is fantastic for landscape. I think the XCD 80 mm might be to wide for head jobs

my favorite S lens fot portrares is the S120. And with the H6D my favorite portrait lens is the 150n

[Guest]

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1 hour ago, djmay said:

If there were one best way to build a medium format digital camera, everyone would be doing it. As I mentioned before, each manufacturer chooses design priorities and then manages tradeoffs to bring the product to market.

My priorities for choosing a camera system (emphasis system) are:

1. The sustainability of the manufacturer

2. Image quality in the print; not the sensor, not the processor, not the lenses but the integration of all, including color science. I do more black and white work than color, and color science is important to black and white work also.

3. Design philosophy of the manufacturer. This is somewhat related to number 1.

4. Weather resistance

Leica satisfies all points for me with the Leica S. Before I bought into the system, I deliberated quite a lot over point 1. The owners of Leica seem to be committed to the business not on a quarter by quarter basis, but on a century basis.

Fujifilm GFX100 satisfies most with the exception of the EVF. I prefer the Leica approach of optical viewfinder with live view functionality. I understand why manufactures decide on EVF; it is cheaper to produce, requires less space and weight. It is probably a matter of time before the optical viewfinder becomes even more rare. I was impressed that Fujifilm decided to include IBIS in the design priorities. It is not necessary for medium format still photography, however, video is one of Fujifilm's top design priorities, unlike the other medium format manufacturers.

Hasselblad, unfortunately, does not pass point 1 for me. I will give Hasselblad about three years to prove sustainability. I expect that the top management of DJI is taking a similar view. This is what happens when a large company takes over a small company. Priorities are discussed, limited investments are made according to promised deliverables and if the deliverables are successful, more investment is provided. Also, Hasselblad must compete for investment funds with other DJI business units. It is frequently not pleasant to be in this environment. It can also explain why the new product offering is somewhat modest. It is not wise to over-promise to top management in this kind of business environment. The best approach is only to promise that which can be delivered with minimal risk. If Hasselblad can do this for three years, they should be okay.

With respect to the relative weight of the systems, this can be a key decision point for some users. Some people have physical limitations to how much weight they can carry. I know of people that cannot comfortably manage more than a 1kg kit. As long as I am physically able, I will continue with the S system. My kit in a backpack ranges between 15-20 kg, including tripod, food, water, trekking poles, etc. If I were to replace the S components with the lightest weight similar products, I may save 1-2kg. I would take other weight-saving measures first before I would consider replacing the S. Maintaining fitness and strength is important.

I am an artist. I am not a commercial photographer. I produce work according to a vision and self-defined standards; if those standards align with those of art lovers, then it sells. I spend as much time as necessary to get it right according to my vision; for commercial work I would be motivated to spend as little time as possible to meet the client's expectations.

Jesse djessemay.com

My thoughts. 

I have the S007 and 3 lenses

i have the H6D100c and 4 lenses

i have the Leica Q2

i have M10 with 4 lenses

I hate lugging the S gear and the H6D gear around...... just hate it. It’s a real PITA traveling with heavy gear as 90% of airlines just won’t let you hand carry more than 7 KG why’s is equivalent to a S007 with 1 lens and a bag

same worh H6D and one lens and bag. 

For me my travel companion is the Q2 (love this camera) and possibly the new X1D II with 2 lenses. The other bricks are up for sale as I just can’t be annoyed with all the grief that goes with them. 

Neil

[Fedro]

16 minutes ago, NW67 said:

I have the S30 which is fantastic for landscape. I think the XCD 80 mm might be to wide for head jobs

my favorite S lens fot portrares is the S120. And with the H6D my favorite portrait lens is the 150n

I quite like the 80 for portraits, but you can also get the 90. A lovely lens, but a bit slower. It is lighter though. I traded the 90 for the 80

the 120 is lovely, but as it is macro too, it has VERY slow AF. If you like long, you may want to look at 135, which is also a little faster and I heard is great

I love both the 30 and 21. hard to choose as they are both stunning, 21 is eminently croppable on 50mp, but 30 doubles up as a walk around lens (although you have the Q2 there close)

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

Huh?

forget about it and move on..that same one-sided discussion is happening at getDPI 😁

[Stuart Richardson]

Hi Vieri,

Yes, we will agree to disagree here. I am a professional photographer and do run a studio, and the way I run my studio, the Leica S makes the most sense, largely because of its flexibility, quality, and the fact that I am already heavily invested in the system. Following that, the GFX makes a lot of sense indeed, for my uses. Weight is not really a huge consideration for me. It is completely irrelevant in the studio, and much of my location work is located not too far from my vehicle. For that which is not, I am the kind of photographer who is comfortable primarily using one or two lenses. I do not need or want to carry the entire kit at any given time. I am used to 4x5 and 8x10, so the GFX system is a piece of cake.

In any case, it is interesting to me that you characterize the GFX100 as a rich amateur's camera...if anything I would put the X series more squarely in that camp. I only know one guy with a X1D, and he used to work as a microsoft executive. Meanwhile, the GFX series is incredibly popular here with professional photographers. Apparently the Icelandic distributor has sold so many that they were given special recognition from Fuji...they sold more than were sold in South America or something like that. Sales does not mean everything, but they seem to be meeting professional's needs really well, at least in my part of Scandinavia. Also your list does not really represent what professional photographers are mostly doing here...flowers? street? sports? Obviously sports is a different genre altogether. People are using these to photograph in studio, and taking them on location to shoot commercial shoots, and often they have to produce some video component at the same time, and having pro level video is a huge bonus for jobs where you do not need a fully spec'ed out video kit. Others are using them for weddings, where the MF look in a compact, stabilized body is a huge benefit. The video is very welcome there too. Same for editorial.

Anyway, for the pro market that I am in, where people want high quality and video along with stills, the GFX is a really interesting tool. Especially as the market is not so huge as to encourage massive specialization and high compensation. Every photographer here has to do a little of everything. It does not make economic sense for most to buy only a super high end studio system, or full video kit and a full stills kit. This is why cameras like the 5D Mark 2 and on were so successful....they could do it all for a reasonable price. Fuji has taken that concept and brought it to medium format, with all the quality that brings.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Stuart Richardson

[lx1713]

I see Vieri's points and agree but I would not characterise the GFX100 as a rich amateur's camera 😂 

It's more of a general MFD camera aimed at affordability for professionals whose market is more price sensitive and when good enough quality hits the nail squarely. And it's excellent in image quality.

 It's just that Vieri took issues with the features that seem gimmicky and irrelevant to the format size and use case. Hence, a rich amateur's camera. But fundamentally the GFX100 is a pro camera with features tacked on to pull in amateurs, to widen the pool of users. Based on my understanding of Vieri's post, he just took its measure and found it wanting.

Edited June 20, 2019 by lx1713

[lx1713]

Personally, I'm looking at either an S or the newer X1D II for products and people. I'm really struggling with the fact that to fit the S to a tilt shift body for products, I will need a 5 kg Sinar P3 DF. The ROI just isn't attractive.

[peterv]

4 hours ago, djmay said:

Hasselblad, unfortunately, does not pass point 1 for me. I will give Hasselblad about three years to prove sustainability.

Funny you should mention this, they’ve just announced a new camera for their ~70 year old V-Mount 🙂

It’s like Leica’s M which is great.

BTW I have a feeling that our S lenses will still be of use to artists in 70 years from now and I completely agree about the artist <> commercial photographer assessment.

[Vieri]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Hi Vieri,

...

Every photographer here has to do a little of everything. It does not make economic sense for most to buy only a super high end studio system, or full video kit and a full stills kit. This is why cameras like the 5D Mark 2 and on were so successful....they could do it all for a reasonable price. Fuji has taken that concept and brought it to medium format, with all the quality that brings.

Hi Stuart,

I completely see your point, and I agree with you on that. I never said otherwise. What I said is something different, is "So, if one thinks purpose-oriented, setting GAS aside and forgetting the impulse to have the new and best tech available, I don't actually think that there is any kind of shooting for which the GFX is the best choice out there.". Which, it seems to me, is exactly what you are saying: it can do it all for a (relatively) reasonable price, and - again - I agree with you on that, it's a great "Jack of all (MF) trades" but I still maintain that there are better choice of gear for any of the genres I mentioned and for people (like me) doing one kind of photography only (landscape, in my case) I still maintain that I don't see the GFX 100 as an alternative to other systems.

Best regards,

Vieri

Edited June 20, 2019 by Vieri

[xiaubauu2009]

Pffff.... coming from users of Leica S and talking about purpose, rich amateur toys etc is not at all un-convincing  

[xiaubauu2009]

Don’t worry. I am one such user. 

Features of a system is what makes it capabilities and purpose. You can use a S for sport photos, but it will do it poorly. For it to do well, it need some kind of tech feature. Somehow, on an S, it is consider a feature, a potential. On a GFX it's a gimmick....

Edited June 20, 2019 by xiaubauu2009

[Vieri]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Hi Vieri,

...

Apparently the Icelandic distributor has sold so many that they were given special recognition from Fuji...they sold more than were sold in South America or something like that. Sales does not mean everything, but they seem to be meeting professional's needs really well, at least in my part of Scandinavia. ...

On a side note, Iceland has the fifth per-capita income in the World (GDP), so the fact that Fuji sold more in Iceland than in the whole of South America or something, kinda proves my point about the target buyer of the GFX 100, unless Iceland is full of professional photographers whom all need 100 MP...  

Best regards,

Vieri

[djmay]

8 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

Don’t worry. I am one such user. 

I find this very funny. I hope it was intended. I am sure Hasselblad would be delighted to have rich amateurs for customers 😂

[xiaubauu2009]

3 minutes ago, djmay said:

I find this very funny. I hope it was intended. I am sure Hasselblad would be delighted to have rich amateurs for customers 😂

Of course I am just a dumb ass amateur, cause who in their right mind would buy into a 30k USD camera system and not working any penny out of it. Hahaha

Edited June 20, 2019 by xiaubauu2009

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[xiaubauu2009]

4 minutes ago, djmay said:

I find this very funny. I hope it was intended. I am sure Hasselblad would be delighted to have rich amateurs for customers 😂

I think that's what they are going to have anyway. My chinese friends are all salivating at the 907x and X1Dii, it will sell like hotcakes...