007 vs Hassy x1-D

[peterv]

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The look, from the first sample photos that circulated when the system was just annouced, to the samples posted on the Fb usergroup I see regularly, I think the XDC lenses draw OOF areas a little too nervous for my taste. Some say it has to do with the seven (?) aperture or leaf shutter blades not being circular. And then there’s the talk of vignetting due to the leaf shutter not evenly exposing the surface of the sensor, but that is hard to make out on the X1D photos because there always seems to be a lot of PP going in these files. 

[Milan_S]

14 minutes ago, peterv said:

The look, from the first sample photos that circulated when the system was just annouced, to the samples posted on the Fb usergroup I see regularly, I think the XDC lenses draw OOF areas a little too nervous for my taste. Some say it has to do with the seven (?) aperture or leaf shutter blades not being circular. And then there’s the talk of vignetting due to the leaf shutter not evenly exposing the surface of the sensor, but that is hard to make out on the X1D photos because there always seems to be a lot of PP going in these files. 

I had the S2 and S007 with a lot of S lenses but I appreciate the look of the XCD lenses they are very sharp, lovely rendering and can't blame the bokeh.

The color out of the X1D feels more natural and needs less tuning in my opinion compared to the S007. The S2 and S006 had lovely colors too but the S007 tend to be too green for my portrait work and needed more fine tuning. 

X1D w/ 90mm f3.2 shot wide open. 

 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Fedro]

4 hours ago, frame-it said:

the mark 2 is not really an update..its what it should have been at the original x1d release

sure, and ... so what? I have the original, it is an amazing camera, despite its shortcomings.

Improved and at that price, it looks very good imho

btw, I thought the 907x looks hot

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Milan_S said:

 

I do hope Leica considers to adjust the price point of the S3 closer to the pricing of X1D...

You know that ain't going to happen..............I would guess that for the price of the New S3 you will be able to get the X1D II plus a few XCD lenses. Has anyone seen where you can actually buy the X1D II NOW?

Edited June 19, 2019 by Guest

[Jeff S]

Nothing like hands on testing before drawing conclusions.  I made prints using the S006 and X1D, and found little to complain about regarding IQ and file flexibility. 

Jeff

[peterv]

Nice photo, Milan. Not sure if a wide open shot would show eventual leaf shutter problems though. I agree about the greenish 007, though others would probably see different. Like Jeff says, everyone needs to do their own testing and go for whatever suits them best, and their wallet allows 🙂

[Joakim]

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1 hour ago, NW67 said:

You know that ain't going to happen..............I would guess that for the price of the New S3 you will be able to get the X1D II plus a few XCD lenses. Has anyone seen where you can actually buy the X1D II NOW?

It will be available in July according to Hasselblad

[Jeff S]

And the zoom in October.

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

Sorry to drop the F bomb, but the price and the incremental change here looks like resignation to the fact that Fuji is stomping over everyone in the technical side of things. I am of course the first to say that the tech specs are not everything, but there is nothing in this statement that tempts me at all to switch from the S to the X system. Meanwhile, the S3 is extremely tempting.

I can certainly see, however, for people looking for a more compact camera with a nice design, good interface, and excellent image quality this will be great. I am more interested in a workhorse camera to use in and out of the studio, day in and day out, for artwork reproduction to landscape and fine art and documentary style work, and I think the S system and GFX system fill that need better for me. To me the difference in price between this and the GFX 100 is a no brainer...50 extra megapixels, extremely high quality video, stabilization, the possibility of multi-shot integration, a broader lens selection, much better EVF. Anyway, I hope this puts on extra pressure on Leica to be aggressive with the pricing. I am not holding my breath, however.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

And the zoom in October.

Jeff

 

4 hours ago, Joakim said:

It will be available in July according to Hasselblad

Perfect timing

[Jeff S]

Release date and availability aren’t synonymous.

Jeff

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Release date and availability aren’t synonymous.

Jeff

Gives me time to move my Hasselblad & Leica S gear

[xiaubauu2009]

It should be pretty soon as China's website already start selling on JD.com. So July is an accurate time. Usually, they don't fxxk around on dates.

[xiaubauu2009]

the 907x is very tempting. Perfect system for what Iw ant to achieve.

[Guest]

I know this is the Leica Forum but I also know quite a few people on here have the original X1D. So my question to those guys is this

what would be a good 2 XQD lens starter kit with landscape and portraiture in mind?

neil

[Guest]

Maybe it should be XCD

[Milan_S]

I have the 45mm and 90mm XCD lenses and till now this has been a perfect kit for me not interested in the zoom but i might pick up the 80mm f1.9 one day. 

 

[Vieri]

6 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Sorry to drop the F bomb, but the price and the incremental change here looks like resignation to the fact that Fuji is stomping over everyone in the technical side of things. I am of course the first to say that the tech specs are not everything, but there is nothing in this statement that tempts me at all to switch from the S to the X system. Meanwhile, the S3 is extremely tempting.

I can certainly see, however, for people looking for a more compact camera with a nice design, good interface, and excellent image quality this will be great. I am more interested in a workhorse camera to use in and out of the studio, day in and day out, for artwork reproduction to landscape and fine art and documentary style work, and I think the S system and GFX system fill that need better for me. To me the difference in price between this and the GFX 100 is a no brainer...50 extra megapixels, extremely high quality video, stabilization, the possibility of multi-shot integration, a broader lens selection, much better EVF. Anyway, I hope this puts on extra pressure on Leica to be aggressive with the pricing. I am not holding my breath, however.

Hello Stuart,

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The new X1D mark II is hardly technically inferior to any of the 50 MP Fujis, in a smaller, lighter and better looking package with a better UI - in fact, to me is better than both of them, unless you definitely need a focal plane shutter of course. If you are thinking about the Fuji GFX 100, I might be wrong, but IMHO the Fuji GFX 100 is a great technological achievement without a clear target user, save of course the wealthy amateur that wants the latest and best no matter what. Let's see possible professional uses for the GFX 100:

Studio (people). That's probably the best use for it, but then why do you need such a huge camera, or IBIS, or weather sealing in a studio? And, it has a relatively slow flash sync, not a must in the studio but since there are leaf shutter systems out there, probably if you do people going into one of those would be a better choice.
Studio (product). Same as the above, and, no product-shooting-specific lenses such as T/S, limited choice of macro, and so on.
People outside the studio. Again, see studio (people) above, but in this case leaf-shutter systems would definitely much better suited to the task.
Sport. Despite all the advancing in tech, I think that hardly anyone would choose MF as their weapon of choice for sport shooting. No long enough lenses, not fast enough, too many MP to move around, and so on. IMHO, FF is still the king for sport shooting.
Landscape. While it's potentially great to have 100 MP and weather sealing, the 1.2 KG package (camera body alone) makes it a no go for me, and I would never choose it for my work. Now, a 100 MP X2D or a GFX 50R/S-form-factor-camera with a 100 MP sensor would be a total different proposition of course
Macro / flowers. Again, limited macro lens choice and no T/S options would make FF the better choice for this.
Nature / bird / animals. IBIS is useful, but the lack of long enough lenses would limit this use severely. And again, if you have to hike / walk long distances, 1.2 kg for the camera body alone would make this pretty uncomfortable vs, say, FF.
Street. Well, I don't think anyone would consider the GFX 100 for this.
Reportage. I don't think anyone would consider the GFX 100 for this either.

So, if one thinks purpose-oriented, setting GAS aside and forgetting the impulse to have the new and best tech available, I don't actually think that there is any kind of shooting for which the GFX is the best choice out there. Yes, Fuji is stomping over everyone technologically with the Fuji GFX 100, but it feels more like an exercise than a camera with a clear photographic purpose to me. The X1D II is, as it was the X1D, the best camera for landscape photography IMHO, and while far from being universal (no MF is, yet) is very good at other kind of shooting as well. I might have overlooked something, but I simply cannot see the point of the GFX 100 in practical, real photographical use against the existing alternatives.

As always, just my .02. Best regards,

Vieri

Edited June 20, 2019 by Vieri

[xiaubauu2009]

1 hour ago, Vieri said:

Hello Stuart,

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The new X1D mark II is hardly technically inferior to any of the 50 MP Fujis, in a smaller, lighter and better looking package with a better UI - in fact, to me is better than both of them, unless you definitely need a focal plane shutter of course. If you are thinking about the Fuji GFX 100, I might be wrong, but IMHO the Fuji GFX 100 is a great technological achievement without a clear target user, save of course the wealthy amateur that wants the latest and best no matter what. Let's see possible professional uses for the GFX 100:

 Studio (people). That's probably the best use for it, but then why do you need such a huge camera, or IBIS, or weather sealing in a studio? And, it has a relatively slow flash sync, not a must in the studio but since there are leaf shutter systems out there, probably if you do people going into one of those would be a better choice.
Studio (product). Same as the above, and, no product-shooting-specific lenses such as T/S, limited choice of macro, and so on.
People outside the studio. Again, see studio (people) above, but in this case leaf-shutter systems would definitely much better suited to the task.
Sport. Despite all the advancing in tech, I think that hardly anyone would choose MF as their weapon of choice for sport shooting. No long enough lenses, not fast enough, too many MP to move around, and so on. IMHO, FF is still the king for sport shooting.
Landscape. While it's potentially great to have 100 MP and weather sealing, the 1.2 KG package (camera body alone) makes it a no go for me, and I would never choose it for my work. Now, a 100 MP X2D or a GFX 50R/S-form-factor-camera with a 100 MP sensor would be a total different proposition of course
Macro / flowers. Again, limited macro lens choice and no T/S options would make FF the better choice for this.
Nature / bird / animals. IBIS is useful, but the lack of long enough lenses would limit this use severely. And again, if you have to hike / walk long distances, 1.2 kg for the camera body alone would make this pretty uncomfortable vs, say, FF.
Street. Well, I don't think anyone would consider the GFX 100 for this.
Reportage. I don't think anyone would consider the GFX 100 for this either.

So, if one thinks purpose-oriented, setting GAS aside and forgetting the impulse to have the new and best tech available, I don't actually think that there is any kind of shooting for which the GFX is the best choice out there. Yes, Fuji is stomping over everyone technologically with the Fuji GFX 100, but it feels more like an exercise than a camera with a clear photographic purpose to me. The X1D II is, as it was the X1D, the best camera for landscape photography IMHO, and while far from being universal (no MF is, yet) is very good at other kind of shooting as well. I might have overlooked something, but I simply cannot see the point of the GFX 100 in practical, real photographical use against the existing alternatives.

As always, just my .02. Best regards,

Vieri

I order the GFX100 and hope to get it next week. I only had about 20 mins playing around with it. A few point I got out from that is this:

1. Solid ness of the body - I feel that it is beyond a doubt a very well manufacture camera. But when holding it in hand the weight is distributed not towards the grip as much but more towards the side of the mount and also bottom due to battery and this exhibition unit only has 1 battery. So it make the place where you hold it slightly lighter than theother part. I am just nick picking. But because of this it doesn’t feel as densely packed as say a Leica S. And you get the feeling that they could have make it smaller.... but hey what do I know. 
2. The IBIS is good. Nothing more to say about it. Its better than the IBIS on A7r3 on Sony.
3. 16 bit compressed or uncompressed is a 1 shot only business. I can live with that as I don’t need super fast AF-C
4. Didn’t have much chance to try out the AF. But first impression is that it feels up to par with modern standard. It’s almost like a Sony A7r2 fast which is already pretty good. 
5. The body finish. It will be quite terrible as the display unit already has chipped paint As you can see on the photos. 
6. EVF is good. The color is not as nice as the one in SL Leica, maybe I didn't set the EVF properly.
7. Vertical grip is not as comfortable but since it’s indoor with normal air cond. maybe it’s not as as critical. But I can see the potential problem it can have and the paint peeling scrapping off that grip. 
8. Buttons - maybe I am not use to the layout yet or not used to ergonomics, but I keep accidentally bumping into random buttons.
9. Since I used Cambo Actus and they have announced that they will be coming out with an update to the system I am excited about this. 
10. Since I have never tried the newer apsc size camera from Fujifilm. The video menu seems very impressive. 

I think you keep referring the GFX100 as a camera with no clear direction and trying to mark it as a toy for rich amateur is not that objective, remember this is just about the same size as a 1Dx, and it's even lighter.... This is clearly a camera that wants to do a lot of stuff in an area where MF hasn't been explored. The speed and IQ advantage that it can provide to real world is real, the Video function is very very good. Look at the stupid Alpa XO cage... you can tell where they are heading, together with Fujinon's cinema lens that covers the full 44x33.... They want to revolutionize Movie industry just as EOS 5D Mark II did...

but I agree with you that DJI/Hassy makes a very very good attempt at reworking the X1D series into something to compete with Fuji's other lower end product. Their advantage is much clear in that segment and the experience they have from this Mark II attempt will propel them to do better product that Fujifilm in the future. A BSI 100mp 44x33 X1D Mark III with digital IBIS.... maybe....

My current issue with the GFX100 is probably the same as you I guess, the size. I can't use it with Combo Actus without taking huge compromise to lens selection.

I am waiting for the 907x pricing and if that is about the same price as the X1D Mark II, I might swap system....

 

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[djmay]

If there were one best way to build a medium format digital camera, everyone would be doing it. As I mentioned before, each manufacturer chooses design priorities and then manages tradeoffs to bring the product to market.

My priorities for choosing a camera system (emphasis system) are:

1. The sustainability of the manufacturer

2. Image quality in the print; not the sensor, not the processor, not the lenses but the integration of all, including color science. I do more black and white work than color, and color science is important to black and white work also.

3. Design philosophy of the manufacturer. This is somewhat related to number 1.

4. Weather resistance

Leica satisfies all points for me with the Leica S. Before I bought into the system, I deliberated quite a lot over point 1. The owners of Leica seem to be committed to the business not on a quarter by quarter basis, but on a century basis.

Fujifilm GFX100 satisfies most with the exception of the EVF. I prefer the Leica approach of optical viewfinder with live view functionality. I understand why manufactures decide on EVF; it is cheaper to produce, requires less space and weight. It is probably a matter of time before the optical viewfinder becomes even more rare. I was impressed that Fujifilm decided to include IBIS in the design priorities. It is not necessary for medium format still photography, however, video is one of Fujifilm's top design priorities, unlike the other medium format manufacturers.

Hasselblad, unfortunately, does not pass point 1 for me. I will give Hasselblad about three years to prove sustainability. I expect that the top management of DJI is taking a similar view. This is what happens when a large company takes over a small company. Priorities are discussed, limited investments are made according to promised deliverables and if the deliverables are successful, more investment is provided. Also, Hasselblad must compete for investment funds with other DJI business units. It is frequently not pleasant to be in this environment. It can also explain why the new product offering is somewhat modest. It is not wise to over-promise to top management in this kind of business environment. The best approach is only to promise that which can be delivered with minimal risk. If Hasselblad can do this for three years, they should be okay.

With respect to the relative weight of the systems, this can be a key decision point for some users. Some people have physical limitations to how much weight they can carry. I know of people that cannot comfortably manage more than a 1kg kit. As long as I am physically able, I will continue with the S system. My kit in a backpack ranges between 15-20 kg, including tripod, food, water, trekking poles, etc. If I were to replace the S components with the lightest weight similar products, I may save 1-2kg. I would take other weight-saving measures first before I would consider replacing the S. Maintaining fitness and strength is important.

I am an artist. I am not a commercial photographer. I produce work according to a vision and self-defined standards; if those standards align with those of art lovers, then it sells. I spend as much time as necessary to get it right according to my vision; for commercial work I would be motivated to spend as little time as possible to meet the client's expectations.

Jesse djessemay.com