New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?

[Jon Warwick]

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If the SL2 is not to be a clone of this putative Panasonic at a higher price, it will have to be distinctive in a way that justifies a higher price: build quality? absence of buttons? different/better functionality?

Interesting!

 

 

+ microlenses on an SL2 sensor that allow adapted M lenses to be fully compatible? ....similar to what we already see for the current SL .....

[mmradman]

Let's just assume all this goes ahead and it all gets confirmed in a weeks time.  Even better Sigma start flooding market with affordable and compatible AF lenses.

 

We already have copy-cat precedent with Panasonic-Leica D-Lux line, in principle same camera with minor cosmetic differences between Pana and Leica.  Key feature common to both is  use of propitiatory Panasonic RAW format.

 

So if Panasonic comes first with 40+ MP successor to SL601 i would assume it would be followed with re-badged Leica camera.  Key question that remains yet unanswered is what RAW format for either or both?

[lct]

The SL2 would remain a 100% Leica camera i guess so a PanaLeica body could take the place of the mirrorless "M" some of us have been expecting possibly. This way Leica would not compete against itself with tho different kinds of M cameras. Just a guess from my part.

[lx1713]

how does one use an m4/3 lens on full frame ?

 

Good catch 

 

I'm only passing familiar with 4/3 and none at all with m4/3 hence my mistake. My take is if the protocols  are compatible between Panasonic m4/3 and Leica L mount, Panasonic can service their M4/3 lenses with swopping the M4/3 mount for an L mount. Essentially you merge both systems making the M4/3 lenses part of the L mount system with a factory installed mount switch. That way your M4/3 lenses will live new lives as L mount lenses with no need for adapters. Provided my guess that the protocols are compatible. Flange distance is 19.25mm for M4/3s and 19mm for the L mount.

 

It would be a nice strategic step. No cul-de-sac for the M4/3 lenses for Panasonic and they can step out of Canon and Nikon's FF shadow.

Edited September 21, 2018 by lx1713

[bags27]

 Even better Sigma start flooding market with affordable and compatible AF lenses.

 

 

There is plenty of speculation elsewhere (certainly not on a Leica board!) that Sigma is making Leica's TL lenses already. FWIW.

[bags27]

Good catch 

 

I'm only passing familiar with 4/3 and none at all with m4/3 hence my mistake. My take is if the protocols  are compatible between Panasonic m4/3 and Leica L mount, Panasonic can service their M4/3 lenses with swopping the M4/3 mount for an L mount. Essentially you merge both systems making the M4/3 lenses part of the L mount system with a factory installed mount switch. That way your M4/3 lenses will live new lives as L mount lenses with no need for adapters. Provided my guess that the protocols are compatible. Flange distance is 19.25mm for M4/3s and 19mm for the L mount.

 

It would be a nice strategic step. No cul-de-sac for the M4/3 lenses for Panasonic and they can step out of Canon and Nikon's FF shadow.

There is also speculation that this marks the reduction of the M4/3 to a subordinate status, likely a dying one, by Panasonic. That NiCanSon has marked out the new field, competitively and effectively collectively, and that PanLeicSig is going to both join and compete with them using the L mount (just today it was revealed that Panasonic will announce 3 L mount lenses). Fuji and Olympus will continue to bet on different formats...for now.

 

Much of this shake-up, of course, is somewhat caused by the fact that you can take increasingly nice photos on your cellphone, particularly Leica's Hauwei. So, the need to establish something definitively superior and FF for the consumer.

[lx1713]

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Sizewise, I doubt if anyone working with pro lenses will want something smaller than an SL.

 

The CL is a little tiny for me but I do want smaller lenses and even occasionally a smaller format than the APSC so a range of formats is a neat thing for a former view camera user who is used to have 4x5" & 645, 66, 67, 69, 612cm formats to meet client's needs. My Sinar C2 was massive compared to the format needed most times so I'm happy with the range my camera can deliver with.

 

So I think camera bodies need to be a certain size to be useful but it's more important to have a wide range of different formats even if the camera is large relative to the format. Mind you, I'm looking to the past to guess the future.

[frame-it]

"Leica's Huawei"..Leica only helped design the camera [and probably gets a tonne of cash for using their Logo]...not manufacture it...i worked on their tv commercials

 

 

but yes the p20 pro can take some very nice shots..

 

 

 

There is also speculation that this marks the reduction of the M4/3 to a subordinate status, likely a dying one, by Panasonic. That NiCanSon has marked out the new field, competitively and effectively collectively, and that PanLeicSig is going to both join and compete with them using the L mount (just today it was revealed that Panasonic will announce 3 L mount lenses). Fuji and Olympus will continue to bet on different formats...for now.

 

Much of this shake-up, of course, is somewhat caused by the fact that you can take increasingly nice photos on your cellphone, particularly Leica's Hauwei. So, the need to establish something definitively superior and FF for the consumer.

[AlanJW]

There is still the geometrical difficulty of matching the mounts. There is simply no room for an adapter.

Then how is it that the L mount is perfectly compatible with both SL (FF) and CL/TL (APS/C) lenses?

[LD_50]

Then how is it that the L mount is perfectly compatible with both SL (FF) and CL/TL (APS/C) lenses?

CL/TL lenses use the same mount and flange distance as SL lenses. No adapter is required.

 

M43 uses almost the same flange distance (19.25 mm vs 19 mm) which is why it was stated an adapter likely isn’t possible.

[MediaFotografie]

according to https://www.l-rumors.com/category/rumors/ we can expect two bodies and three lenses:

24-70, 70-280 and a fast 50

(so the L System contains two fast 50mm primes and still no 35mm)

[AlanJW]

CL/TL lenses use the same mount and flange distance as SL lenses. No adapter is required.

 

M43 uses almost the same flange distance (19.25 mm vs 19 mm) which is why it was stated an adapter likely isn’t possible.

Thank you for clarifying.  So APS/C lenses can work and M43 cannot.  I don't see the absence of M43 compatibility as a big issue.  It will be interesting to see how CL/TL mount lenses work.  I use them from time to time on the SL in circumstances where more than 10 mp is not needed.  Bumping that to something close to 20mp would be a plus (assuming of course that other factors like noise are acceptable).  

[FrozenInTime]

M43 uses almost the same flange distance (19.25 mm vs 19 mm) which is why it was stated an adapter likely isn’t possible.

Unless the larger diameter of the L mount allows the inner m43 flange to be recessed.

 

Interesting times ahead.

Certainly stopped me buying any m43 or TL lenses until the dust settles.

[thighslapper]

https://www.l-rumors.com/leica-panasonic-and-sigma-are-becomig-new-partners-to-build-a-new-full-frame-system-around-the-sl-mount/

 

Leica+Sigma+Panasonic ...... what's not to like ?

 

This looks like a shrewd tactical move in a difficult and shrinking market..... and as is mentioned a good way of producing a 'system' quickly due to the cross compatibility.

[Timkr]

This great news. While I love the SL, it’s hard not to be disappointed at the pace of leica delivery of new products to evolve the system. I will definitely be pre ordering the new 42MP body.

[jaapv]

Good catch 

 

I'm only passing familiar with 4/3 and none at all with m4/3 hence my mistake. My take is if the protocols  are compatible between Panasonic m4/3 and Leica L mount, Panasonic can service their M4/3 lenses with swopping the M4/3 mount for an L mount. Essentially you merge both systems making the M4/3 lenses part of the L mount system with a factory installed mount switch. That way your M4/3 lenses will live new lives as L mount lenses with no need for adapters. Provided my guess that the protocols are compatible. Flange distance is 19.25mm for M4/3s and 19mm for the L mount.

 

It would be a nice strategic step. No cul-de-sac for the M4/3 lenses for Panasonic and they can step out of Canon and Nikon's FF shadow.

Geometrically completely impossible from mount sizes , not to mention that MFT lenses do not even begin to cover full frame.

[Chaemono]

I see the second hand value of my SL lenses holding up really well now.

[LD_50]

Unless the larger diameter of the L mount allows the inner m43 flange to be recessed.

 

Interesting times ahead.

Certainly stopped me buying any m43 or TL lenses until the dust settles.

M43 is 19.25 and L is 19.00 so the M43 lenses would need to be spaced 0.25 mm farther from the sensor.

 

I can’t see it being worth the trouble of making an adaptor when the M43 lenses would be nowhere near FF coverage and there are plenty of M43 cameras available.

[mmradman]

CL/TL lenses use the same mount and flange distance as SL lenses. No adapter is required.

 

M43 uses almost the same flange distance (19.25 mm vs 19 mm) which is why it was stated an adapter likely isn’t possible.

And good for that. Besides, why would anyone want to really use M43 lens on full frame sensor camera.  Image circle for M43 lens is about half of image circle for full frame lens, projected image would cover equivalent of one quarter of full frame sensor. Simple solution to this is to use M43 lens with M43 camera.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[RomeoBravo]

https://www.l-rumors.com/leica-panasonic-and-sigma-are-becomig-new-partners-to-build-a-new-full-frame-system-around-the-sl-mount/

 

Leica+Sigma+Panasonic ...... what's not to like ?

 

This looks like a shrewd tactical move in a difficult and shrinking market..... and as is mentioned a good way of producing a 'system' quickly due to the cross compatibility.

 

 

according to https://www.l-rumors.com/category/rumors/ we can expect two bodies and three lenses:

24-70, 70-280 and a fast 50

(so the L System contains two fast 50mm primes and still no 35mm)

 

I was just about to post these links.

Some very interesting stuff here.  Some of my wishes:

-I hope the DFD2 AF is a lot better than the AF on the current SL

-These partners make a camera using a foveon sensor, L mount, and decent AF

-Sigma makes an adapter similar to the MC-11 to bring Canon EF lenses to the SL system (that works better and costs less than the Novoflex)

-Make some constant aperture zooms that aren't the size of a bazooka

-Make a FF version of the Pana/Leica 42.5/1.2 - that was lens was the only reason I kept my m43 camera for a year.  It was also the only lens that my wife would stop and ask "what lens did you use for that portrait" when I used it...and I have a LOT of lenses!

Edited September 21, 2018 by RomeoBravo