LocalHero1953 Posted May 16, 2018 Share #81 Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Lets just be perfectly honest though, nobody buys a Leica digital camera for its technical superiority over another brand... Do they? ............ Does that mean that if I disagree with you I am dishonest? That's a bit like the OP's assertion that anyone who disagrees with him is "clearly just an advocate of the brand". Neither are helpful ways of sorting out technical issues. Edited May 16, 2018 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here M10 vs Sony A7RIII - ISO differences. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted May 16, 2018 Share #82 Posted May 16, 2018 Actually they do. It just depends on what aspects of the camera one values Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 16, 2018 Share #83 Posted May 16, 2018 I don't think the OP's basic point is unreasonable--it is based on objective observations--so let's not treat him like an idiot for raising the question. If you think it's a dumb question, or the OP is making a mountain out of a molehill, just ignore it. I don't think we'd talk to each other this way if we were meeting in person at a coffee shop. ---- Sent by someone on a hopeless effort to improve civility on the internet ... After a considerable number of posts the OP still refers to Leica's 'cheating' a word which clearly indicates that their is a degree of underhand behaviour by Leica, and the clear implication that those who explained the possible reasons were colluding Leica 'fanboys'. Its hardly a way of winning friends and influencing people on the LUF. But I do agree about civility - providing of course a discussion can itself be taken part in with some degree of open mind and a determination to retain civility (and not use words like cheating). Face to face I am sure that most discussions on web fora would be toned down - sometimes substantially. Unfortunately part of the web's way of operating is in privacy and with that appears a false bravado and lack of base manners. FWIW there are some good fora on the web and I would put LUF in that category. FWIW I own other cameras and my observations/comments are based on the flexibility of the RAW files not the initial output from the camera ...... the digital world is a complex one and often cannot be taken at face value though some want it to be. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr237 Posted May 16, 2018 Share #84 Posted May 16, 2018 After a considerable number of posts the OP still refers to Leica's 'cheating' a word which clearly indicates that their is a degree of underhand behaviour by Leica, and the clear implication that those who explained the possible reasons were colluding Leica 'fanboys'. Fair point Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted May 16, 2018 Share #85 Posted May 16, 2018 Some people are just so intransigent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTLeica Posted May 16, 2018 Share #86 Posted May 16, 2018 Does that mean that if I disagree with you I am dishonest? That's a bit like the OP's assertion that anyone who disagrees with him is "clearly just an advocate of the brand". Neither are helpful ways of sorting out technical issues. Are you able to read a statement and understand the point without picking up purely on a figure of speech...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTLeica Posted May 16, 2018 Share #87 Posted May 16, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually they do. It just depends on what aspects of the camera one values By technical, I mean technology. Which part of the tech inside the Leica is superior to other brands? I ma just playing devils advocate... I buy Leica despite this, not because of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 16, 2018 Share #88 Posted May 16, 2018 Which part of the tech inside the Leica is superior to other brands? Errrrr. The mechanical rangefinder . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 16, 2018 Share #89 Posted May 16, 2018 Lets just be perfectly honest though, nobody buys a Leica digital camera for its technical superiority over another brand... Do they? In real life situations I have been exceptionally impressed by the low light images that I managed to get, considering I used to shoot A7RII's for a couple of years. One could argue that Leica has some of the best viewing systems in the industry..... best VF/RF in the M, best EVF in the SL, and gorgeous optical finder in the S. Coupled with Leica’s consistently outstanding lenses, Leica excels in allowing one to both see the subject and capture the light, the essence of the medium. And I would also suggest that Leica offers simple control interfaces in most cameras that use technology in restrained but effective ways. Sometimes it’s not the technology itself, but how it’s deployed. The Monochroms are examples of going a different way than other brands. The S was mini MF before many other companies. And so on. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted May 16, 2018 Share #90 Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) Are you able to read a statement and understand the point without picking up purely on a figure of speech...? What may seem a figure of speech to you in the privacy of your own space comes across as offensive to those who do not know you in a public forum. Edited May 16, 2018 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTLeica Posted May 17, 2018 Share #91 Posted May 17, 2018 What may seem a figure of speech to you in the privacy of your own space comes across as offensive to those who do not know you in a public forum. Point taken, I will make it clearer next time - I will use a smiley or something 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTLeica Posted May 17, 2018 Share #92 Posted May 17, 2018 One could argue that Leica has some of the best viewing systems in the industry..... best VF/RF in the M, best EVF in the SL, and gorgeous optical finder in the S. Coupled with Leica’s consistently outstanding lenses, Leica excels in allowing one to both see the subject and capture the light, the essence of the medium. And I would also suggest that Leica offers simple control interfaces in most cameras that use technology in restrained but effective ways. Sometimes it’s not the technology itself, but how it’s deployed. The Monochroms are examples of going a different way than other brands. The S was mini MF before many other companies. And so on. Jeff Well yes I agree it has the best rangefinder... Like I said though, this isnt a bash at Leica and its certainly not a bash at their philosophy (which for me encompasses most of their product range like the Mono, M, TL CL etc) nut merely a point that if you want the best 'tech' (and by that I am talking AF, Sensor, Processor and all those things that come with that - none of which I value much by the way) then you dont buy a Leica. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted May 17, 2018 Share #93 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) Speaking of better tech out there, I’m posting this because I find it amusing. I’m on the road and processed the attached picture on my cell phone quickly. I lent a friend of mine the Sony GM 24-70 to take with him on vacation to use on his α7 II, which I actually had sold to him for very little. When he came back a couple of weeks ago he returned the lens. After a few days I receive an email from the dealer where I had bought the body with a repair notice due to water damage. I went to see him yesterday and this is what he told me. He was on one of those day boat trips sitting at the edge of the boat taking pictures, when a “big” wave suddenly broke over the boat (Indian Ocean) and completely soaked the camera. He said if he hadn’t had the strap around his neck the camera would have been gone. He thinks the lens is Ok as there wasn’t any water in the mount. I have to check. But Sony apparently can’t repair it. They sent it back with the notice: “Returned unrepaired Water damage / write off! Total economic loss!” See attached picture. They can’t repair their little toy cameras, it seems. Next time I’ll give him the SL with the 24-90. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 17, 2018 by Chaemono Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/284201-m10-vs-sony-a7riii-iso-differences/?do=findComment&comment=3520314'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 17, 2018 Share #94 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) Well yes I agree it has the best rangefinder... Like I said though, this isnt a bash at Leica and its certainly not a bash at their philosophy (which for me encompasses most of their product range like the Mono, M, TL CL etc) nut merely a point that if you want the best 'tech' (and by that I am talking AF, Sensor, Processor and all those things that come with that - none of which I value much by the way) then you dont buy a Leica. The viewing system is every bit a tech part of the system. Various companies are still trying to catch up to the MP of the SL’s EVF, and it’s a selling point of the camera. Same with the M and S VFs. And lens technology speaks for itself. People buy the system, not just the body. Leica excels at lens and optics tech and quality. It’s why many buy Leica. Jeff Edited May 17, 2018 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 17, 2018 Share #95 Posted May 17, 2018 Not to forget the CL's EVF, which is quite good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 17, 2018 Share #96 Posted May 17, 2018 Speaking of better tech out there, I’m posting this because I find it amusing. I’m on the road and processed the attached picture on my cell phone quickly. I lent a friend of mine the Sony GM 24-70 to take with him on vacation to use on his α7 II, which I actually had sold to him for very little. When he came back a couple of weeks ago he returned the lens. After a few days I receive an email from the dealer where I had bought the body with a repair notice due to water damage. I went to see him yesterday and this is what he told me. He was on one of those day boat trips sitting at the edge of the boat taking pictures, when a “big” wave suddenly broke over the boat (Indian Ocean) and completely soaked the camera. He said if he hadn’t had the strap around his neck the camera would have been gone. He thinks the lens is Ok as there wasn’t any water in the mount. I have to check. But Sony apparently can’t repair it. They sent it back with the notice: “Returned unrepaired Water damage / write off! Total economic loss!” See attached picture. They can’t repair their little toy cameras, it seems. Next time I’ll give him the SL with the 24-90. E12992BE-9A1D-4D02-96D1-FAF8B61B9908.jpeg Water damage to the internals of a digital camera (or any other electronic device) is irreparable. Leica would have sent the same note. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted May 17, 2018 Share #97 Posted May 17, 2018 The goods news is, the lens works perfectly. I just tried it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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