Luxury Camera Bags by Thorsten von Overgaard

[stunsworth]

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In the meantime, I hope that Billingham takes a stand against the association made by you.

To be fair, I doubt that there’s much Billingham can do, all Thorsten’s doing is putting a £50 insert into a multi thousand dollar bag. If he were claiming some business relationship with Billingham that would be different.

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[Jeff S]

To be fair, I doubt that there’s much Billingham can do, all Thorsten’s doing is putting a £50 insert into a multi thousand dollar bag. If he were claiming some business relationship with Billingham that would be different.

They might, for instance, ask that his videos, promotional materials, etc not use the Billingham name, or alternatively require a disclaimer statement.

 

Jeff

[earleygallery]

To be fair, I doubt that there’s much Billingham can do, all Thorsten’s doing is putting a £50 insert into a multi thousand dollar bag. If he were claiming some business relationship with Billingham that would be different.

 

Not much but I thought they should at least know of the fact their brand is being used to promote the repugnant skin bags. I was impressed to receive a personal response thanking me for bringing this to their attention.

[farnz]

In this part of the world, I’d happily wear fur from possums, rabbits, any mustelid ... why? They’re pests the Government has undertaken to eradicate within the next 30 years. Completely eradicate. ...

I agree, John, and would do the same.

 

It's perhaps worthwhile pointing out to those who might not be aware that New Zealand has a large number of indigenous species of fauna and flora that are not found naturally anywhere else and the introduced possums, rabbits, rats, and cats are driving them to extinction because possums, rabbits, rats, and cats have no natural predators in New Zealand.

 

Pete.

[andybarton]

Not much but I thought they should at least know of the fact their brand is being used to promote the repugnant skin bags. I was impressed to receive a personal response thanking me for bringing this to their attention.

The Billingham people are very approachable.

[Michael Geschlecht]

I agree, John, and would do the same.

 

It's perhaps worthwhile pointing out to those who might not be aware that New Zealand has a large number of indigenous species of fauna and flora that are not found naturally anywhere else and the introduced possums, rabbits, rats, and cats are driving them to extinction because possums, rabbits, rats, and cats have no natural predators in New Zealand.

 

Pete.

 

Hello Pete,

 

And don't forget plants. New Zealand, as with many other parts of the World, has been colonized by all types of non-native plants in the last 500 years. These have, to a great extent, displaced Native Species. As they have throughout a large part of the World colonized by Europeans in the last 500 or so years. Also: When the first settlers came to New Zealand 1,000 or so years ago they also brought their own plants & animals which, for the most part, there were no natural predators for.

 

By the way, I think that the animal that has most successfully colonized the Planet in the last 500 years, after People, has been the Rat. Pretty much: Wherever there are People, there are Rats of some type or other. Mostly Brown Rats & Black Rats..

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 28, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht

[pico]

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One comment that struck me was the suggestion that Mr. Overgaard has a Danish world-view which tends to be less cynical, in my opinion, than my own. So, I continue reading this thread with that in mind. Humility helps.

.

[UliWer]

Here’s the fact of the matter:

 

This specific bag is elephant hide from Zimbabwe, which is one of the countries that have a remarkable growth of in population of Luxodonta africana elephants (84,000) within their reserves. The sale of hides from naturally deceased elephants goes into funding the reserves, the security and veterinarians. In other words, the protection and growth of elephants. We do not use elephant skin from hunted elephants.

 

 

It’s my fault that I didn’t consider people’s feeling and ignorance on this subject. I’ve known all about these bags for more than a year, the history of the skin, the certification, the legality of different types of sources. My video mentions that the skin is certified, and when you buy a bag with exotic skin, you get a certificate for its origin.

 

But 15 pages of heated discussion without a clue to the facts! ....

You have a chance to verfify the facts. You could post a copy of the certificate of the hide’s origin and name the institution which are funded by sales.

[Lufizer]

Mr Overgaard, can you name one or more international animal welfare organizations that share your claim that leather trafficking serves animal welfare?

[EoinC]

If the intent were to assist elephant conservation efforts, wouldn't direct funding be more efficient than via purchase of a bag made from the skin of the target species? It seems an extremely (I actually mean impossibly) tenuous link to suggest that conservation is a positive attribute in this trade.

[Jeff S]

Creating or enhancing any channel for the sale of any non- ivory elephant parts, even if unfortunately legal, only encouarages poaching and desensitizes people regarding the critical need to continue efforts to preserve this spectacular species.

 

Jeff

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jeff S

[Ouroboros]

.......

I do find Thorsten’s attitude disappointing.

I find his attitude predictable.

 

He knows he isn’t going to sell many of these hideous bags, but he knows he will sell some. He knows, as we all do, that there are arrogant, gullible, tasteless and stupid people out there with more money than moral decency who will buy his bags. He’s going to make far more money out of a few bag sales than he will make out of selling his crappy lens hoods and other stick-on junk to his newsletter and YouTube subscribers.

 

There are maybe a dozen or so active people on this thread who continue to voice their outrage with varying degrees of hysteria. In the greater scheme of his enterprise there are probably so few objectors here as to be irrelevant to him and he may see this as a risk worth taking. All he needs to do is manipulate his sales terminology. He knows that this forum isn’t going to significantly influence anything or anyone because the type of posts that might do so will be instantly deleted.

 

He is a better businessman than a photographer and the only effective way to demonstrate your contempt for his enterprise is to boycott him totally. It won’t stop him selling his bags, but at least you can sleep soundly in the knowledge that you aren’t aiding and abetting him in his disgusting and shameful sideline.

[ianman]

One comment that struck me was the suggestion that Mr. Overgaard has a Danish world-view which tends to be less cynical, in my opinion, than my own. So, I continue reading this thread with that in mind. Humility helps.

.

 

And his Italian mate is also pig-ignorant less cynical I suppose ? I think you are being way too kind Pico!

Edited March 28, 2018 by ianman

[stray cat]

Again, these elephants did not die by natural causes. Please refer to this: http://www.rojeleather.com/species-and-leathers/elephant-leather/ (Warning: it might make you feel quite ill, which it does me).

 

The elephants are hunted and shot. There is no "natural" cause. Sick rich boys killing something more beautiful than themselves.

 

The onus is on Overgaard to offer proof that it is otherwise. But hunting is where elephant hides come from, so the constant harping on about these elephants somehow dying of natural causes is a lie.

[jaapv]

Am I alone in wondering what a 'naturally deceased elephant' is? Presumably one which is dead. From what? Old age? Disease? Gunshots? Call me cynical, but its an odd way to describe an elephant's way of dying - shouldn't the phrase be: "elephants which have died from natural causes' if the reason is in fact not hastened? I remain highly (as in totally) skeptical.

Normally an Elephant will die of starvation. They have six sets of molars in succession. I takes about ten years on average depending on the type of food for a set of molars to wear down and be replaced, the first set lasts far shorter and the last one far longer. Until the last set wears out and the Elephant cannot feed any  more. One can imagine the state of its skin at that stage.

[Keith_W]

Thorsten, I have some friendly advice for you. I have no doubt that you are a sincere person and you genuinely believe that no elephants were unnaturally harmed in the process of procuring their skins. However, I urge you to consider the damage to your reputation that has happened, and will continue to happen the longer you allow this saga to continue. It's a simple calculation - how many of these bags can you sell? Compared to how much long term loss of business you will suffer if people start associating you with exploitation of endangered species? 

 

I think the best way forward would be to put your undoubted writing skills to good use and issue an apology. Retract the bag from the market. Make a donation to an elephant preservation charity to show contrition. It is PR 101. 

 

Just FYI I was about to order another ventilated lens hood for my new lens because I was so pleased with the Overgaard lens hood that I already have. I put that on hold. You haven't lost my business yet. I have a tendency to wait and see what happens. 

[jaapv]

Again, these elephants did not die by natural causes. Please refer to this: http://www.rojeleather.com/species-and-leathers/elephant-leather/ (Warning: it might make you feel quite ill, which it does me).

 

The elephants are hunted and shot. There is no "natural" cause. Sick rich boys killing something more beautiful than themselves.

 

The onus is on Overgaard to offer proof that it is otherwise. But hunting is where elephant hides come from, so the constant harping on about these elephants somehow dying of natural causes is a lie.

Culling is another main - and highly controversial- source.

[stray cat]

Culling is another main - and highly controversial- source.

 

Culling still means the elephants are hunted and shot - and I'd strongly suspect that often the people who do the culling pay for the "privilege".

 

Again, what are the "natural causes" that seem to be such a critical part of his excuse for marketing these abominations as somehow ethical? Yet again, the onus is on him to offer some proof what "natural causes" is.

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[Denys]

He’s going to make far more money out of a few bag sales than he will make out of selling his crappy lens hoods

 

He is a better businessman than a photographer

 

 

 

I only post this in the knowledge it won’t hijack a very important and interesting thread.. ..but I want to be a better businessman than a photographer too (goodness knows, that may not be difficult).. ..if anyone wants to throw $100,000 at me I’ll supply a better than “crappy lens hood”.. ..it’s made from metal from the hull of RMS Titanic! ..NO elephants died during the tragedy, and the only rabbits that did were already not breathing when the ship hit the iceberg.. ..in fact, some pet dogs survived.. ..more than 1,500 poor (and not so poor, financially) souls did perish, however.. ..with every lens hood I’m happy to supply a “thanks very much” certificate from the dockyard where the ship is currently under restoration.. ..no wait..

[Lonescapes]

Here’s the fact of the matter:

 

This specific bag is elephant hide from Zimbabwe, which is one of the countries that have a remarkable growth of in population of Luxodonta africana elephants (84,000) within their reserves. The sale of hides from naturally deceased elephants goes into funding the reserves, the security and veterinarians. In other words, the protection and growth of elephants. We do not use elephant skin from hunted elephants.

 

 

It’s my fault that I didn’t consider people’s feeling and ignorance on this subject. I’ve known all about these bags for more than a year, the history of the skin, the certification, the legality of different types of sources. My video mentions that the skin is certified, and when you buy a bag with exotic skin, you get a certificate for its origin.

 

But 15 pages of heated discussion without a clue to the facts! And an “administrator” going elephant man on his profile …

 

I’m a public person with a website that displays my phone number and my e-mail. Only esteemed forum member Jono Slack was sensible enough to not part-take in this sideshow, but e-mailed me directly to question how this works, and did his own research as well, opening more questions that he asked me.

 

Anyone who feel they want to do something about this should donate to for example www.earthorganization.org or www.savetheelephants.org

 

 

/Thorsten

 

This is a serious question, since you, at the very least, seem to want to approach rationally the question of whether what you're doing is unethical:

Do you simply not believe in or disagree with the statement that selling any product like this--however legal or ethical that individual item--contributes to the overall demand for similar items, not all of which will meet the same standards?