M10M will have what?

[Nick_S]

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On 2/14/2018 at 12:55 AM, retcheto said:

Does anyone have some RAW files from an MM1 they’d be willing to share? I’m very curious as to why everyone says the MM1 has such special files.

Some example DNG files available for download are provided in this 2012 blog entry by Mark Goldstein on the Monochrom Mk1:

https://www.photographyblog.com/previews/leica_m_monochrom_photos?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+photographyblog+PhotographyBLOG

 

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[james.liam]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:12 AM, colint544 said:

If you already have an M246, isn't that probably the better camera? But anyway, you're welcome to a couple of RAW files from my MM1 - I can email them to you if you like.

I've followed Colin's extensive work over the years on his M9M. Aside from his truly gifted artist's eye and well-honed skill massaging RAW files (IMHO, his examples exceed anything else on this site with the Monochrom), the M9M images appear to leave nothing to be improved upon. The "grain" at higher ISO has a natural look to it and using a rangefinder in the pitch darkness is an effort in futility.

Then you're back to the middling EVF of the M10.

[mmradman]

45 minutes ago, Nick_S said:

Some example DNG files available for download are provided in this 2012 blog entry by Mark Goldstein on the Monochrom Mk1:

https://www.photographyblog.com/previews/leica_m_monochrom_photos?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+photographyblog+PhotographyBLOG

 

Re post #23 nothing wrong using RF in poor light, I do it all the time with M246.

With respect to 2012 samples they are all lovely especially shot in well lit studio with plenty of shiny fabrics and very beautiful model.

At time of M246 launch there was well regarded review by Egor comparing two Monochrom cameras and converted pictures from colour M Leica, link here https://www.ultrasomething.com/2015/04/sensors-and-sensibility/

[a.noctilux]

17 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Built-in GPS ?

Which Leica M ?

 

2 hours ago, algrove said:

M10, like Jeff S was discussing above my post

My M10 that I use since 2017 doesn't have GPS built-in.

GPS is available only when I mount Visoflex 020.

Can it be firmware upgrade that I've never done on this M10 ?

[evikne]

I also guess the M10-M will inherit the M10-P's silent shutter. Actually I think this shutter is so popular that Leica will use it in all future M models.

[colint544]

5 hours ago, fotografr said:

I use a SanDisk 95 Mb/s card in mine and have never had a problem with it.

Re: ISO limits with the MM1. I've had some beautiful results shooting 5000 ISO with performers on stage (example below). I think the limitation of 3200 ISO refers to shooting ambient light situations. Otherwise, I agree with everything Colin wrote.

 

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What a great shot!

[horosu]

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In my opinion, what Leica can do to improve they output of their Monochrome cameras: 

• improve wake up time possibly using motion detectors
• improve dynamic range in order to reduce/eliminate clipped highlights

These two things would differentiate enough these cameras from the existing color/monochrome digital Leica cameras to warrant an upgrade (we KNOW the ISO capabilites are going to be fabulous).

[algrove]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:24 AM, a.noctilux said:

 

My M10 that I use since 2017 doesn't have GPS built-in.

GPS is available only when I mount Visoflex 020.

Can it be firmware upgrade that I've never done on this M10 ?

Leica M's since the advent of the M240 needed external devices to gather GPS info. No FW upgrade can replace that since a GPS receiver is required in order to obtain GPS info. On the M240 it was in a grip and on the M10 it is incorporated into the Visoflex. The 020 is the only one made for the M10.

[algrove]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:22 AM, fotografr said:

I use a SanDisk 95 Mb/s card in mine and have never had a problem with it.

 

Assume you are not referring to using these cards in an MM1 when you say "in mine"?

[fotografr]

28 minutes ago, algrove said:

Assume you are not referring to using these cards in an MM1 when you say "in mine"?

Yes, in my MM1. It works just fine.

[wilfredo]

It's interesting to read how MMI users consistently remain loyal to it (myself included, I particularly love the flesh tones it produces).  I took some shots of the salesperson at the Leica store, with the M10, and the flesh tones did nothing for me, in fact I was disappointed.  Most of what I see online in B&W produced by the M10 (especially people shots) just seem lacking in tonal richness.  Shooting color with the M10 is a different story, but my love is for B&W photography.  Along with Brent (on page 1) I've also had great results shooting performers on stage.  Dark skin tones with the MMI are superb. 

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Edited September 9, 2019 by wilfredo
Added additional photo.

[pedaes]

13 minutes ago, wilfredo said:

It's interesting to read how MMI users consistently remain loyal to it (myself included, I particularly love the flesh tones it produces).  I took some shots of the salesperson at the Leica store, with the M10, and the flesh tones did nothing for me, in fact I was disappointed.  Most of what I see online in B&W produced by the M10 (especially people shots) just seem lacking in tonal richness.  Shooting color with the M10 is a different story, but my love is for B&W photography.  Along with Brent (on page 1) I've also had great results shooting performers on stage.  Dark skin tones with the MMI are superb. 

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Lovely photos. Regarding M10 b&w's, are you talking as produced by camera or properly processed through something like Silver Efex Pro?

[wilfredo]

Even after Post Processing with Silver Efex Pro, I was not satisfied.  I realize that Monochrom Type I users are a minority within a minority of Leica photographers. It's not a camera for the general public, or even Leica fans at large, hence Leica sees no profit in CCD sensors. Leica  (like all business enterprises) follows the money.  We (MMI shooters) see what we see - even when others don't see. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by wilfredo

[Luke_Miller]

On 9/8/2019 at 6:45 AM, horosu said:

In my opinion, what Leica can do to improve they output of their Monochrome cameras: 

• improve wake up time possibly using motion detectors
• improve dynamic range in order to reduce/eliminate clipped highlights

If Leica continues its current practice of developing monochrome bodies, the expected M10M will have the same sensor as the  current M10 series minus the Bayer Array.  So it will have dynamic range identical to those bodies.  Highlight clipping appears worse in the Monochrom bodies because, unlike the color bodies, there is no ability to salvage data from an unclipped color channel. 

[Timmyjoe]

On 9/9/2019 at 11:30 AM, wilfredo said:

I realize that Monochrom Type I users are a minority within a minority of Leica photographers. It's not a camera for the general public, or even Leica fans at large, hence Leica sees no profit in CCD sensors. Leica  (like all business enterprises) follows the money.  We (MMI shooters) see what we see - even when others don't see. 

Couldn't agree more Wilfredo. My first digital Leica was an M8.2 and I was amazed at the B&W I could get out of that camera when using it with Silver Efex Pro. I longed for an MM1 for years but it was out of my price range. Finally got my hands on one late last year, and I'm not letting go. Love the way it renders and in particular, the way it renders flesh tones. Definitely a keeper.

Best,

-Tim

[cirke]

https://www.fastrawviewer.com/Monochrome2DNG

[duoenboge]

Maybe a higher solution for the M10M:

https://leicarumors.com/2019/08/28/the-upcoming-leica-m10m-monochrom-camera-is-rumored-to-have-a-new-41-42mp-sensor.aspx/

[AceVentura1986]

On 9/20/2019 at 3:16 AM, duoenboge said:

Maybe a higher solution for the M10M:

https://leicarumors.com/2019/08/28/the-upcoming-leica-m10m-monochrom-camera-is-rumored-to-have-a-new-41-42mp-sensor.aspx/

I’ve got both an ME and an M9M and believe the latter is the best camera I’ve ever used. Even at 18 mpx, it’s got enough resolution to print to 24” x 36”, at least, perhaps even bigger too. I doubt most users would actually have any need for a 42mpx sensor. Further, in might actually detract from the camera’s usability.

As I’ve read for years, once the resolution is greater than about 30 mpx sensitivity is increased to the point that hand holding can become difficult. I’ve no experience with this, actually, as my highest resolution camera is my 6D at 20mpx. Still, I have read on many occasions that shutter speed needs to be increased in order to compensate for that added sensitivity. Given that 18-24 is fairly sufficient for most purposes, I just don’t see the need for such high resolution cameras. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

On 9/9/2019 at 12:30 PM, wilfredo said:

Even after Post Processing with Silver Efex Pro, I was not satisfied.  I realize that Monochrom Type I users are a minority within a minority of Leica photographers. It's not a camera for the general public, or even Leica fans at large, hence Leica sees no profit in CCD sensors. Leica  (like all business enterprises) follows the money.  We (MMI shooters) see what we see - even when others don't see. 

Stefan Daniel recently said this about CCD technology and rendering when recently interviewed for the 10 year anniversary of the M9 (Google translation)...

“In 2009, CMOS sensors had already begun to take precedence over CCDs. Why still opt for CCD technology, and why at Kodak in particular?

[Laughs] That's pretty funny because today I still get requests for a new M with a CCD. Some photographers seem to like, and regret, the rendering of the CCD. But as for why we stayed on CCD in the M9, it's very simple: Kodak, at that time, was the only company that wanted to customize a sensor with the network of micro-lenses that we had designed. So, the choice was quickly made since it was the only one.

In any case, even in 2019, I'm sure that if we released a Leica M CCD sensor, it would sell to some fans of the CCD look. But it's not in the program and, in any case, technology no longer exists.Finally, it has not completely disappeared, since it is still used in some industrial sensors, but for photography, the CCD has completely disappeared. In any case, today, this technology would have no interest compared to CMOS. Most importantly, it is the image processing algorithms that have the most influence on color rendering than the sensor technology itself. It also depends on the photographer's eye and some placebo effect. I'm sure if today we were doing a blind test between two images taken with a CCD and a CMOS, most people who would see these images can not say which one corresponds to which

sensor. In my opinion, it is more a story of image processing than technology.”

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.fr&sl=fr&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://mizuwari.fr/index.php/2019/09/09/le-leica-m9-a-dix-ans-entretien-avec-stefan-daniel-pere-du-premier-hybride-24-x-36-mm/&xid=17259,15700022,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265&usg=ALkJrhiyb6JjbH47lU-OAfztxN44T2T1Bw

[pico]

On 9/21/2019 at 8:20 AM, AceVentura1986 said:

As I’ve read for years, once the resolution is greater than about 30 mpx sensitivity is increased to the point that hand holding can become difficult.

Have there been any competent tests for such a claim?