M10M will have what?

[PaulJohn]

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What will Leica want to do with the M10M?

 

Will the M10 sensor without the colour filter array be an advance over the M246?

 

Does greater dynamic range come at the expense of subtle tonality?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Gregm61]

Improved higher ISO performance, thinner body, marginally improved rangefinder, etc....all the incremental improvements of the M10 over an M246.

 

After mulling over the options for a few weeks, I elected to buy a used, virtually mint M-P 240 as a second/new primary body to use alongside my M262 and saved almost $3,000 over the price of a new M10. I could imagine many doing the same here with the Monochrome bodies.

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[jaapv]

Actually I like the Monochrom 1 files images better than the Monochrom2. A Monochrom3 may well offer no real advantage, other than the smaller body, improved viewfinder etc.

[PaulJohn]

Actually I like the Monochrom 1 files images better than the Monochrom2. A Monochrom3 may well offer no real advantage, other than the smaller body, improved viewfinder etc.

 

 

I've heard quite a few say that and wonder whether to go for a MM1 instead. 

 

Do you try to shoot at specific ISO's  to achieve a certain look? I've been trying to find raws to play with but can't find many.

[mmradman]

As much as I liked M9 I preferred M240 as more advanced digital camera, I was lucky never to experience any of the well documented problems with both cameras; sensor issues on M9, SD card compatibility on M9 to some minor degree, strap lugs on M240.

 

I never held M10 in hand and would certainly appreciate slimmer body with some of the improvements but providing it is not step backward from M240, sluggish ancillary EVF is dealbreaker. Wake me up when it matches Q or SL EVF.

 

So, where does it leave us with respect to Monochrom? If you like M10 you would probably like M10M, would it be any advantage to M9M or M246, it is to a degree similar argument to M10 providing advantage over M9 or M240. Choose your dream camera generation.

 

Unless forthcoming M10M or future M11M provide something above incremental improvement M246 would remain last RF I ever bought. Massive battery, good ISO performance, stable operation, no major or minor QC issues (yet), even crappy EVF occasionally comes handy. Anyone looking for a reliable monochrome in UK or willing to order from Uk secondhand market is already awash with reasonably priced 246 specimens.

[PaulJohn]

I had a 246. Sold it and now regret. Just missed one on eBay that went for 3200 gbp. Trouble is if I buy one I will have too many cameras and not know what to leave at home. I currently either pair m10 with Q or M-P with M-A for film. Definitely a case of GAS

 

 

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[colint544]

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I've heard quite a few say that and wonder whether to go for a MM1 instead. 

 

Do you try to shoot at specific ISO's  to achieve a certain look? I've been trying to find raws to play with but can't find many.

 

 

I have no experience of the M246, but I've been shooting with an MM1 for more than five years. I've never really hit the limits of the camera. I've been shooting digital cameras since 2001 (Nikon D1), and had got used to my digital camera being quickly superseded by something much better. The M Monochrom mk1 is the first digital camera where I've felt that not to be the case.

 

If you do go for the MM1, my recommendations are:

 

1) Never go above 3200 ISO

 

2) Always shoot DNG files and save as TIFFs

 

3) 1600 ISO is the sweet spot for some grit and grain. Looks very filmic to my eyes

 

4) Get some good quality ND filters to really get the most out of the camera

 

5) Use the histogram on the LCD screen - I've found it to be accurate, reliable, and easy to use. Be prepared to underexpose by quite a bit

 

6) If you haven't already, learn how to use layers in Photoshop (or the equivalent in Lightroom)

 

Once you learn to work with the quirks of the MM1, rather than against them, the camera will reward you with prints of such depth, luscious, subtle tones, and luminous blacks that you'll feel you can reach into them and touch the subject. And you can print as big as you like.

 

It's a lot like shooting film. What look like limitations turn out to be strengths. I've found it a very satisfying camera to try to learn to master.

 

https://www.instagram.com/colintempleton/

Edited February 13, 2018 by colint544

[mmx_2]

Owning an MM2 (recently sold) I can add to above (my changes in bold):

 

1) Never go above 8000ISO

 

2) Always shoot DNG files and save as TIFFs

 

3) 6400ISO is the sweet spot for some grit and grain. Looks very filmic to my eyes

 

4) Get some good quality ND filters to really get the most out of the camera

 

5) Use the histogram on the LCD screen - I've found it to be accurate, reliable, and easy to use. Be prepared to underexpose by quite a bit

 

6) If you haven't already, learn how to use layers in Photoshop (or the equivalent in Lightroom)

 

Never owning an MM1 (but tried quite a few times) I can only say the MM1 files have more "black" and the MM2 files more "grey" out of the box. So in the end it's a matter of taste and it can be addressed in post processing. I bought the MM2 because I wanted a common plattform with my M240 (battery, grip, EVF) but I think that 3200ISO that you get from MM1 is enough for most people . The M10 will propably boost "maximum useable ISO" to at least 20000 with a sweet "film like" sweet spot at around 16000, plus of course smaller body and better EVF.

 

Most bang for the buck, MM1 without any doubt! Resolution wise they all have "more than you need".

Edited February 13, 2018 by mmx_2

[retcheto]

Does anyone have some RAW files from an MM1 they’d be willing to share? I’m very curious as to why everyone says the MM1 has such special files

 

I have been shooting an M246 for the past couple of months and absolutely love it. I use live view quite a bit so for me the files would have to very special on the MM1 for me to give that up

[colint544]

If you already have an M246, isn't that probably the better camera? But anyway, you're welcome to a couple of RAW files from my MM1 - I can email them to you if you like.

Edited February 14, 2018 by colint544

[johnbuckley]

The advantages of a Monochrom on the M10 platforms would be: the M10 sensor, which is a step up from the M-240; if one travels with an M10, not having to take another battery charger!

[Alberti]

To me the better viewfinder in the M10 compared to the M240 line is a big step, secondly, as is the better noise. The new professional processor probably gives it an edge too in file handling. 

However, I like the grain of the CCD-based cameras and do not see that as noise at all. No reason to change and more a reason to long back.

[Belle123]

To me the better viewfinder in the M10 compared to the M240 line is a big step, secondly, as is the better noise. The new professional processor probably gives it an edge too in file handling. 

However, I like the grain of the CCD-based cameras and do not see that as noise at all. No reason to change and more a reason to long back.

Do you mean the EVF? Yes, that is a consideration for upgrading to the monochrome M10 if it ever materializes, but isn’t enough for me since use it on my T and it’s better but not great. I have my doubts the sensor will be a big plus difference though in monochrome compared to the 246. I would love the thinner and lighter body, but so far am willing to just keep the 246 and put up with it. When the m10 monochrome is released, it will go for a ridiculous amount while my 246 is now worth less than half what I paid for it two years later. Is still a terrific camera and no need to upgrade for minor improvements.

[Jeff S]

Do you mean the EVF? Yes, that is a consideration for upgrading to the monochrome M10 if it ever materializes, but isn’t enough for me since use it on my T and it’s better but not great. I have my doubts the sensor will be a big plus difference though in monochrome compared to the 246. I would love the thinner and lighter body, but so far am willing to just keep the 246 and put up with it. When the m10 monochrome is released, it will go for a ridiculous amount while my 246 is now worth less than half what I paid for it two years later. Is still a terrific camera and no need to upgrade for minor improvements.

I think he’s referring to the optical VF, which has higher magnification, a bigger opening and better eye relief than the M240. It’s a core improvement and much discussed.

 

Jeff

[algrove]

and built in GPS

[algrove]

Sold my M246 s not an improvement over the MM1 and also no RAW histogram like the MM! has.

 

If anyone needs SD cards for the MM1 (or M9/M9P) let me know as I have about 10 left. No longer made and the 32mb/s cards are the only ones you can use with the MM1 from my knowledge.

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, algrove said:

and built in GPS

Built-in GPS ?

Which Leica M ?

[xiaubauu2009]

As long as the new rumored M10M has higher than 12bit tonality, it's a better machine than the current M246.

They tell you there's no difference, but the files speak for itself... it's just not as good.

[algrove]

14 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Built-in GPS ?

Which Leica M ?

M10, like Jeff S was discussing above my post

Edited August 30, 2019 by algrove

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[fotografr]

17 hours ago, algrove said:

Sold my M246 s not an improvement over the MM1 and also no RAW histogram like the MM! has.

 

If anyone needs SD cards for the MM1 (or M9/M9P) let me know as I have about 10 left. No longer made and the 32mb/s cards are the only ones you can use with the MM1 from my knowledge.

I use a SanDisk 95 Mb/s card in mine and have never had a problem with it.

Re: ISO limits with the MM1. I've had some beautiful results shooting 5000 ISO with performers on stage (example below). I think the limitation of 3200 ISO refers to shooting ambient light situations. Otherwise, I agree with everything Colin wrote.

 

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Edited August 30, 2019 by fotografr