UliWer Posted July 14, 2017 Share #161 Posted July 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) For what we know now, your practice is sensible. I am certain I used the lever for frame selection much more than the ISO-wheel, though I don't use the lever often. It hit me nonetheless. Without security against its failure the wheel is just superfluous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 14, 2017 Posted July 14, 2017 Hi UliWer, Take a look here M10 Stuck On ISO 400. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jmahto Posted July 14, 2017 Share #162 Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) No one has done any M10 tear down to see how ISO dial is connected inside? In comparison, the shutterspeed dial gets used way more times and I haven't seen a single report of failure. Edited July 14, 2017 by jmahto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan54 Posted July 14, 2017 Share #163 Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) For me it is not a question whether the dial or the menu is preferable, but it is about both being reliable. I go on holiday next week and put the dial on M as not to be surprised by a non-functioning camera. I think that should not be necessary. Edited July 14, 2017 by stephan54 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey You Posted July 15, 2017 Share #164 Posted July 15, 2017 My reading of the consensus on this thread is that the fault is probably with tie ISO dial. Indeed, one poster quotes Leica as stating, "In some cases it can come to a defect at the ISO dial wheel." My M10 was affected, but I rarely used the ISO wheel. I learnt how it worked when I first got the camera, but then set my camera on Auto ISO and left it there. So, if it is the ISO dial, it is surprisingly fragile. My suspicion is that while the ISO dial may be fragile, there is also a firmware problem. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_1987 Posted July 17, 2017 Share #165 Posted July 17, 2017 I got confirmation from Leica repair service that it was a pure mechanical issue. It has to do with the glue applied in the dial mechanism not being strong enough. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted July 18, 2017 Share #166 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Just curious if Leica would really change a customers black dot back to a red one. If I sent my M10 back for some issue and I had put custom leather on the it, would they change it back to the factory black? Why would they be required to change the dot back if it was not them that did the change in the first place? to access the vertical rangefinder adjustment screw, the red (or your black) dot needs to be removed, which destroys the dot in the process so its replaced with a standard new red one once adjustments have been made. If the camera shell has to be opened for other internal access for repair, such as repair to the iso dial, the outer skin needs to be peeled back first. This is difficult to do without destroying it so it is very likely that your custom leather would be replaced with a new standard skin. Edited July 18, 2017 by brill64 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2017 Share #167 Posted July 18, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since when is a dot destroyed by removing? It lifts off quite easily and can be repositioned. However, Leica is under a legal constraint not to apply other than red dots on their produce, so they cannot replace a black one. However, you can request Leica to return the black dot separately or alternately remove it yourself before sending the camera in. Leica will not remove a black dot just to replace it, the above applies to repairs that require a removal, which the ISO wheel repair may well be. Vertical adjustment will certainly change black to red. OTOH, ISO wheel replacement might leave the leather untouched. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted July 18, 2017 Share #168 Posted July 18, 2017 I got confirmation from Leica repair service that it was a pure mechanical issue. It has to do with the glue applied in the dial mechanism not being strong enough. Not that I'm any kind of expert, but should glue really be used in mechanical parts which might see heavy and prolonged use? M6 cameras would occasionally develop problems with the shot counter failing. This, I think, was due to the numbered disc and gearwheel beneath being a solid metal construction in very early cameras (which were reliable, and didn't develop the fault), while later cameras had a silver-plated plastic disc and gearwheel assembly with some parts glued. After this was found to be the cause of the problem, Leica went back to using the original solid metal design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_1987 Posted July 18, 2017 Share #169 Posted July 18, 2017 I'm no expert either. I just thought I might as well report what I heard from repair service. I certainly hope it wasn't just glue that holds things together... I wonder if anyone has experienced any problem with the M-D back ISO wheel. I hope there will be an M-D 10, built not just as slim, but as solid as a film M,. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2017 Share #170 Posted July 18, 2017 Leica often means "locking compound" by the word "glue" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted July 18, 2017 Share #171 Posted July 18, 2017 I'm no expert either. I just thought I might as well report what I heard from repair service. I certainly hope it wasn't just glue that holds things together... I wonder if anyone has experienced any problem with the M-D back ISO wheel. I hope there will be an M-D 10, built not just as slim, but as solid as a film M,. If you are concerned by glue never use a plane. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiaux.john Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share #172 Posted July 18, 2017 If you are concerned by glue never use a plane. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro I think what they meant was they hoped it wasn't just glue that held that particular piece together. Their concern, and rightly so, is that Leica would use glue in an area that sees some of the toughest abuse (pulling it up and pressing it down isn't exactly a gentle endeavor). If you want to use an airplane example I suppose you could say something like "if you're afraid of glue holding an instrumental piece of the camera together, without which you'd render the camera basically useless, then you ought to be afraid of an airplane that uses glue to hold an equally important piece together, like its landing gear." You see, I don't think anyone is saying glue shouldn't be used at all as you're implying. I think you would agree that there are probably places on a camera and an airplane or even an automobile that glue should not be used. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted July 19, 2017 Share #173 Posted July 19, 2017 I think what they meant was they hoped it wasn't just glue that held that particular piece together. Their concern, and rightly so, is that Leica would use glue in an area that sees some of the toughest abuse (pulling it up and pressing it down isn't exactly a gentle endeavor). If you want to use an airplane example I suppose you could say something like "if you're afraid of glue holding an instrumental piece of the camera together, without which you'd render the camera basically useless, then you ought to be afraid of an airplane that uses glue to hold an equally important piece together, like its landing gear." You see, I don't think anyone is saying glue shouldn't be used at all as you're implying. I think you would agree that there are probably places on a camera and an airplane or even an automobile that glue should not be used. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I use my ISO dial daily, and and not gentle with my cameras...my glue seems to hold just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiaux.john Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share #174 Posted July 19, 2017 I use my ISO dial daily, and and not gentle with my cameras...my glue seems to hold just fine. Man, I hope you aren't superstitious.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted July 19, 2017 Share #175 Posted July 19, 2017 Since the reported cases are rather scarce yet, we cannot make out a certain pattern how the problem is caused. The catchwords about "disconnection" and "glue" don't help much. What we know is that a wheel to switch between different contacts for certain electronic purposes is not generally unreliable. There are almost no reports that wheels for setting the shutter times are prone to problems - this is an almost universal device for cameras of all brands. The Iso - wheel is different as you have to lift it to activate it's functions. All I can imagine yet is that the lifting causes the "disconnection". There must be some sort of socket with electric contacts fot the different Iso-values. It seems as if lifting the wheel into this socket causes the socket to "disconnect" or "unglue. When the socket is "disconnected" turning the wheel doesn't help, it just stays at its last contact. So they have to make sure, that the socket doesn't "disconnect" when you lift the wheel. It must be better connected - be it by glue or other means. And it must hold as long as the the whole camera holds. This should be no insoluble issue - though I confess that "glue" doesn't give me enormous confidence. I hope they find ways - or better they already found ways - to fix the socket, even if you lift the wheel a million times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted July 21, 2017 Share #176 Posted July 21, 2017 I hope so too. I'm not convinced of the need for the locking mechanism but perhaps it's something they discovered in trials; that users would bump the side and accidentally change ISO. Maybe while the camera is hanging from their neck and bumping their body/hip. I just hope it becomes as reliable as the rest of the camera if not already. The M10 deserves it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted July 21, 2017 Share #177 Posted July 21, 2017 In the other german language thread a letter from Leica was published, saying that only a "small" number of cameras was affected and that the problem in production was identified at an early stage. Out of that one could conclude that the problem occured in the very early production only. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted July 21, 2017 Share #178 Posted July 21, 2017 Thanks Alex! Good news. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted July 21, 2017 Share #179 Posted July 21, 2017 Leica often means "locking compound" by the word "glue" Probably wrong grade of Loctite. Varnish works pretty well too; was used in aerospace at one time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
riswanc Posted July 22, 2017 Share #180 Posted July 22, 2017 In the other german language thread a letter from Leica was published, saying that only a "small" number of cameras was affected and that the problem in production was identified at an early stage. Out of that one could conclude that the problem occured in the very early production only. They should have publicly said so, if i have to say Instagram @jakontil 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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