M10 Stuck On ISO 400

[a.noctilux]

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Mine stuck on 200 on New Year Eve Bought in March

 

Bad luck.

 

Maybe, if you are near Japan, Leica Services Ginza can help within 2 days :

Look here in RFF

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163360

[fatihayoglu]

Lucky people in Japan, I'm in UK and no plan to fly to Japan anytime soon.

Anyway, sent the camera today to Wetzlar, hopefully it will come back soon.

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[fatihayoglu]

Just to few words on this issue and how amazing Leica customer services are. So they have received my camera on 4th afternoon. Today I’ve been told that my camera is on the way already with UPS back to me. Hopefully I’ll get my camera tomorrow.

 

Throughout the process I have communicated with Andrea Frankl and for those who doesn’t know her, she is a gem! She is one of the most thoughtful and understanding customer services representative I have seen in my life and career and I think Leica is and we are so lucky to have her.

 

She has helped me a lot and follow up the repair process closely so I could get my camera before the trip I have planned. I’ve been folks by Leica UK team, once the ISO wheel is fixed they haven’t had any reports it fails again so finger cross now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited January 10, 2018 by fatihayoglu

[Csacwp]

My brand new M10 had to go to Leica NJ because the rangefinder was misaligned out of the box. I just got it back after more than a month of waiting, and immediately upon receiving it found that the iso dial isn’t working at all. I can still change the iso in the menu (m-iso), but when I turn the dial nothing happens no matter what I set it on. This is a brand new M10, made in 2018.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Csacwp

[reddishpink]

Hello everyone, I hope you're very well.

 

My M10 ISO wheel (purchased February 2017 with serial starting 518) failed yesterday (April 24th 2018). Stuck at 1600 with no means of changing via wheel or main menu. The camera has been reasonably well used since purchase and I change ISO via the wheel regularly.

 

Leica Mayfair are sending me a UPS label for return to Germany and have agreed to supply a loan camera if needed. Time for repair stated at 3 - 4 weeks but no detail offered on the actual fault other than "It's something that is affecting only earlier models of the M10 and we have a reliable fix".

 

I was initially very disheartened by this as my M10 is with me always. However, Leica's customer service has always been excellent in my experience so I'll take this one on the chin.

 

Have a lovely day.

 

Kind regards,

Mark

Edited April 24, 2018 by reddishpink

[fatihayoglu]

Hello everyone, I hope you're very well.

 

My M10 ISO wheel (purchased February 2017 with serial starting 518) failed yesterday (April 24th 2018). Stuck at 1600 with no means of changing via wheel or main menu. The camera has been reasonably well used since purchase and I change ISO via the wheel regularly.

 

Leica Mayfair are sending me a UPS label for return to Germany and have agreed to supply a loan camera if needed. Time for repair stated at 3 - 4 weeks but no detail offered on the actual fault other than "It's something that is affecting only earlier models of the M10 and we have a reliable fix".

 

I was initially very disheartened by this as my M10 is with me always. However, Leica's customer service has always been excellent in my experience so I'll take this one on the chin.

 

Have a lovely day.

 

Kind regards,

Mark

Get in touch with Andrea at Wetzlar CS team. She is amazing and that 3-4 weeks can drop 1-2 weeks if she has some way to help you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[reddishpink]

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Delighted to say that, as usual, Leica lived up to expectations and more. My camera was only gone for 8 days and came back fully repaired (ISO wheel replaced) and also fully serviced at no charge. Great to have this lovely M10 back in my hands. 

[John Ricard]

 

 

Getting an exposure depends on the amount of light hitting the sensor/film. The only wesentliche parameters are shutter speed and aperture, thus those are the essential controls.

Film/sensor sensitivity/amplification is basically something else, i.e. the way the light is processed by the medium.

 

 

In a practical sense, Aperture, Shutter and ISO all affect the exposure of the image.  It's similar to perspective distortion.  In a technical sense, the lens focal length has nothing to do with perspective distortion (as in someone having a ballon head from a wide angle lens portrait).  But still, when I teach photography workshops, I tell beginners to use an 85mm lens for portraits so that they will never have to worry about distorted images.  Technically, the lens isn't the problem, but in a practical sense, using a wide angle lens for a portrait will create a distorted image.  In the case of shooting with the M10, if the image is too bright I can roll the shutter speed dial to a higher number or roll the ISO to a lower number and the resulting image is, in a practical sense, exactly the same.  So I'm confused about why you're making a distinction between ISO and the other 2 controls.  Is there any particular reason?  (Not trying to be disrespectful.  Just asking the question).

[chris_livsey]

  So I'm confused about why you're making a distinction between ISO and the other 2 controls.  Is there any particular reason?  (Not trying to be disrespectful.  Just asking the question).

 

Not the OP but my take is that the iso variable is not equivalent to the aperture and shutter as it has a direct effect on the technical quality of the image produced. Now it could be argued that both shutter speed and aperture can have a technical quality effect in the motion "stopping", or not, of the speed and the depth of field effects with the aperture but we are I take it conventionally talking about the exposure control here?

The iso in the digital realm is a gain control and as the gain is increased so the circuit amplification noise is increased, directly affecting the signal/noise ratio of the resulting image. Using the iso to manipulate exposure has that trade off just as in the film world increasing film speed brings a penalty in "noise". I treat the iso digital variable in my mind as changing film with all the quality considerations that brings to bear. 

You say :

 

 In the case of shooting with the M10, if the image is too bright I can roll the shutter speed dial to a higher number or roll the ISO to a lower number and the resulting image is, in a practical sense, exactly the same.  

 

I would contend that it is not the same, when you "roll back" the iso you increase the dynamic range of the image capture, by reducing amplification noise. Likewise of course your "roll" higher of the shutter speed dial will affect your subject of moving water for example so the resulting image will not be in a practical sense the same at all.

As I say above, a similar argument for effects other than on exposure control can be made for the other two controls as well so I am not saying you are wrong but that the use of the three controls has wider implications and requires more input to achieve the desired image, the concept of exposure control in isolation is an oversimplification. As an initial teaching concept there is nothing wrong with the principle of combining the three exposure controls to explain exposure but one would hope that M10 users would appreciate the more nuanced concepts of control over the image by intelligent combinations of the available variables.

Edited May 13, 2018 by chris_livsey

[jaapv]

Completely agree, Chris.

The only controls that affect the amount of light that strikes the sensor (or film for that matter) -and thus determine the output of the sensor- are aperture and shutter speed.

 

ISO only controls the amplification of the original signal coming from the sensor, like a volume control. And like changing the film speed. With the same kind of drawbacks that replacing the film with a faster one bring.

 

Why do I make this distinction? Well, Aperture and shutterspeed affect the photographic content of the image (motion blur, DOF), whilst ISO affects the quality of the image (noise, dynamic range).  The first alters the content.

Compare to a book. The text itself provides the content, the size of the letters the readability.

 

Nobody would conflate film speed with shutter speed and aperture. It is just that digital automation hides the function behind a menu and dials.

[chris_livsey]

 

 

Nobody would conflate film speed with shutter speed and aperture. It is just that digital automation hides the function behind a menu and dials.

Interestingly you can continue the film/digital iso analogy to post exposure. Film iso can be manipulated, within limits, by the developer and likewise the RAW "developer" programs can manipulate the iso applied by digital amplification and noise reduction algorithms after the fact, what it can't do is manipulate the exposure speed and aperture.

The obfuscation is that the iso speed change slider in RAW is disguised as an aperture stops change when of course it is not, the aperture remains as it was when exposed, it would be interesting to change aperture after the exposure and watch depth of field change but it's not happening soon, likewise the visual effects of speed of exposure.

They could equally disguise the iso change by naming the slider "shutter speed" nothing would change in the effect seen but that would be less intuitive I suppose.

Edited May 13, 2018 by chris_livsey

[jaapv]

Some cameras, like the M8, are even completely ISO-independent, as the ISO setting is a straightforward gain control, without added algorithms.

[John Ricard]

I still don't get the point.  Today, ISO has virtually no impact on how the final image actually looks.  And that means it is the essential control that you should be using for get proper exposure.  Shutter and Aperture should be set for aesthetic reasons. If you're posting to IG, websites or blogs, you can set ISO anywhere form 100 to maybe even 3200 (in soft, even lighting conditions) and you won't see any difference in the final image.  

[jaapv]

That is just the point. It is a processing tool, whereas aperture and shutterspeed are creative tools. As such the aperture and shutterspeed determine the ISO setting, inasmuch you want to control the gain in the camera.

[chris_livsey]

I still don't get the point.  Today, ISO has virtually no impact on how the final image actually looks. 

 

It may be that in some circumstances the dynamic range you have available as a direct result of your choice of iso will have no impact on the final image under most others it will.

 

At "base" iso on the M10 you have 10.6 stops available of photographic dynamic range, at your arbitrary 3200 the reduction is to 6.63 stops I will contend that under anything other than your "soft even light" (I would be pushed to find a frame I have shot under those conditions this year BTW) your image will be impacted by your iso choice.

You will note the other controls for exposure will have no impact at all on the dynamic range as they in this case purely control the light falling on the sensor, your iso choice materially affects the image produced by the sensor that is the difference.

My figures come from this source:

 

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica%20M10

 

"If you're posting to IG, websites or blogs" you don't need an M10, a Sony A7 whatever or a Nikon D850 or need to care particularly about iso choice, you are correct, many of us are not and iso choice matters to us because it does make a difference to the final image beyond controlling exposure.

 

​And by the way this is the impact of iso setting on read noise on the M10, there is no chart for the impact of shutter speed or aperture for the obvious reason.

 

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Leica%20M10_14

 

 

If you are not wanting to squeeze every ounce of quality from your camera and lens (and there is nothing wrong with that at all it's still, just, a free world) then run iso as high as you feel comfortable with (at that point acknowledging that it has had an impact beyond exposure control as I think you concede) and use it as one of three controls to adjust exposure by all means, just be aware that it does have a material impact on the final image at any setting above base iso even if you choose to ignore it below your limit or don't see the impact on your end results and that others do care about any impact on their image quality for their output. 

 

Let's run an analogy:  for my output I don't see any benefit from using a tripod. This may well be true, just as the iso effect is not seen, that doesn't mean it isn't impacting on my output quality just that it doesn't matter to me for my output, but I don't say to everyone: you can just ignore a tripod until you shoot below, choose an arbitrary speed, 1/8th second, I acknowledge that it has an impact on quality and others may choose to use a tripod for most of their work even at what I would consider safe, no impact, speeds.

 

Final Answer

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Edited May 14, 2018 by chris_livsey

[mdemeyer]

Well stated.

 

It may be that in some circumstances the dynamic range you have available as a direct result of your choice of iso will have no impact on the final image under most others it will.

 

At "base" iso on the M10 you have 10.6 stops available of photographic dynamic range, at your arbitrary 3200 the reduction is to 6.63 stops I will contend that under anything other than your "soft even light" (I would be pushed to find a frame I have shot under those conditions this year BTW) your image will be impacted by your iso choice.

You will note the other controls for exposure will have no impact at all on the dynamic range as they in this case purely control the light falling on the sensor, your iso choice materially affects the image produced by the sensor that is the difference.

My figures come from this source:

 

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica%20M10

 

"If you're posting to IG, websites or blogs" you don't need an M10, a Sony A7 whatever or a Nikon D850 or need to care particularly about iso choice, you are correct, many of us are not and iso choice matters to us because it does make a difference to the final image beyond controlling exposure.

 

​And by the way this is the impact of iso setting on read noise on the M10, there is no chart for the impact of shutter speed or aperture for the obvious reason.

 

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Leica%20M10_14

 

 

If you are not wanting to squeeze every ounce of quality from your camera and lens (and there is nothing wrong with that at all it's still, just, a free world) then run iso as high as you feel comfortable with (at that point acknowledging that it has had an impact beyond exposure control as I think you concede) and use it as one of three controls to adjust exposure by all means, just be aware that it does have a material impact on the final image at any setting above base iso even if you choose to ignore it below your limit or don't see the impact on your end results and that others do care about any impact on their image quality for their output.

 

Let's run an analogy: for my output I don't see any benefit from using a tripod. This may well be true, just as the iso effect is not seen, that doesn't mean it isn't impacting on my output quality just that it doesn't matter to me for my output, but I don't say to everyone: you can just ignore a tripod until you shoot below, choose an arbitrary speed, 1/8th second, I acknowledge that it has an impact on quality and others may choose to use a tripod for most of their work even at what I would consider safe, no impact, speeds.

 

Final Answer

(Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?)