jdlaing Posted October 23, 2015 Share #41 Posted October 23, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Zeiss alcohol wipes will fix that. Use two. One on the OVF window and one on your beeper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 Hi jdlaing, Take a look here 24mm lens without an EVF or Finder. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Exodies Posted October 23, 2015 Share #42 Posted October 23, 2015 I had the EVF as an aid to focusing 90mm in low light and really disliked it though it was necessary with my eyesight. I bought a SEM 21 and used the EVF and grew to love it. I shoot still objects. I focus with the OVF and frame with the EVF with the horizon lines on, and yes it drains the battery but I have a spare. The SEM 21 is on my camera for weeks at a time and I can never get used to just how much of the scene is in the view finder. The results are so pleasing I forget all about the annoyances of the EVF - carrying it, not losing the hot shoe protector, not losing the EVF protector, using two view finders, fumbling to get a preview on the LCD - all these things which theoretically are showstoppers have become insignificant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 23, 2015 Share #43 Posted October 23, 2015 I had ever used 21/3.4 SEM and found that's too wide for me, I had changed to 24/3.8 Elmar-M and feel like this length more Same here, I just find the 24mm more useful and it gives me natural looking photos. I do want to try going wider again, but this time it will be 18mm or even wider and just for fun. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 23, 2015 Share #44 Posted October 23, 2015 I'm hoping to decide before the current rebate (US) runs out at the end of this month...unless they extend it again! Given the today's Euro drop towards the $, it should only get cheaper. ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share #45 Posted October 24, 2015 I had the EVF as an aid to focusing 90mm in low light and really disliked it though it was necessary with my eyesight. I bought a SEM 21 and used the EVF and grew to love it. I shoot still objects. I focus with the OVF and frame with the EVF with the horizon lines on, and yes it drains the battery but I have a spare. The SEM 21 is on my camera for weeks at a time and I can never get used to just how much of the scene is in the view finder. The results are so pleasing I forget all about the annoyances of the EVF - carrying it, not losing the hot shoe protector, not losing the EVF protector, using two view finders, fumbling to get a preview on the LCD - all these things which theoretically are showstoppers have become insignificant. Interesting, Exodies! The closest I got to getting an EVF was for the 50mm Summilux, thinking it would help me with selective focus, wide open. I didn't like the thought of the extra finder, though, at the time. But, now I'm starting to wonder whether I would "need" it for the 21 (if I get that), and then find myself also using it with the 50...my "original" plan for the EVF2. However, I somehow like the idea of the Brightline Finder better for the 21mm. Though no one seems to be speaking up for that option. (Or I might just go back to the idea of a 24mm with no extra finder?!?!) I'm overthinking this decision! haha Maybe Leica will extend the rebate which will give me more time to figure and try things out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share #46 Posted October 24, 2015 Given the today's Euro drop towards the $, it should only get cheaper. ;-) Sweet! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted October 24, 2015 Share #47 Posted October 24, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I didn't try the bright line finder but I did consider it and concluded that it shared many of the disadvantages of the EVF and the only advantage was that it provided a proper view (like the camera's viewfinder) of the scene. The EVF has three advantages, you only need one no matter what lens, no parallax issues and the artificial horizon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordvik Posted October 24, 2015 Share #48 Posted October 24, 2015 I use a 21mm without an external VF. I can see about 25% at a time even with eyeglasses. It works fine for me at infinity. (it was very difficult to take a picture of the corner of the viewfinder with a mobilephone). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250847-24mm-lens-without-an-evf-or-finder/?do=findComment&comment=2912511'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 24, 2015 Share #49 Posted October 24, 2015 If you like surprises, go finderless. A M camera is poor at precision framing regardless of lens. If you want precision, buy a reflex or use live view with or w/o a nice black hood over your head like a view camera. The view is even upright and not reversed l/r. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 24, 2015 Share #50 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) A M camera is poor at precision framing regardless of lens. ...yeah, but one can easily learn what to expect in the frame. It's not super precise, but I wouldn't call it poor either. Here is a shot I took assuming the edges of the OVF were 24mm frame lines. Quite easy and no need for an external VF. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 24, 2015 by mirekti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250847-24mm-lens-without-an-evf-or-finder/?do=findComment&comment=2912865'>More sharing options...
sdk Posted October 25, 2015 Share #51 Posted October 25, 2015 Too bad Leica doesn't make a 0.58X finder for the digital M cameras. I used to use a 25mm/2.8 Biogon on my M7 0.58X camera with no other finder, and the 0.58X finder edges worked well enough for that. But now I have the M-P and 24mm/2.8 Elmar, and find the EVF very useful for composing with the lens, though I prefer to focus with the RF, then frame with the EVF. The Zeiss 25/28mm finder was pretty good on the M9-P for both 25 and 24mm lenses, but the EVF is better for critical work. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share #52 Posted October 25, 2015 ...yeah, but one can easily learn what to expect in the frame. It's not super precise, but I wouldn't call it poor either. Here is a shot I took assuming the edges of the OVF were 24mm frame lines. Quite easy and no need for an external VF. Thanks for the example! Nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumolux Posted October 26, 2015 Share #53 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Hi miretki, Since the 21mm and 24mm came up in discussion, just jumping in. I love the 24mm because it doesn't always 'act' wide.....At certain distances you can forget it was a wide. But in other situations where needed it is certainly wide enough for many uses. So forgetting the focal length I see it more as a multi purpose lens rather than a wide angle. In that sense the 21mm ASPH is my personal 'wide angle'; the few mm off and the lens design make a more noticeable difference. The Leica EVF I have for 21mm actually does the job for both lenses, because it shows two outlines spaced apart, and once you know the outcome, it is very easy to judge what will fit in your photo. Outer lines for the 21mm and inner for the 24mm work for me on film anyway... So, long and short of it: if you think you might want both 21mm and 24mm lenses eventually, decide on an EVF and also want to save, (the Leica EVF's are horribly expensive!) then try out the 21mm EVF for a dual purpose role. Edited October 26, 2015 by sumolux 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share #54 Posted October 26, 2015 Hi miretki, Since the 21mm and 24mm came up in discussion, just jumping in. I love the 24mm because it doesn't always 'act' wide.....At certain distances you can forget it was a wide. But in other situations where needed it is certainly wide enough for many uses. So forgetting the focal length I see it more as a multi purpose lens rather than a wide angle. In that sense the 21mm ASPH is my personal 'wide angle'; the few mm off and the lens design make a more noticeable difference. The Leica EVF I have for 21mm actually does the job for both lenses, because it shows two outlines spaced apart, and once you know the outcome, it is very easy to judge what will fit in your photo. Outer lines for the 21mm and inner for the 24mm work for me on film anyway... So, long and short of it: if you think you might want both 21mm and 24mm lenses eventually, decide on an EVF and also want to save, (the Leica EVF's are horribly expensive!) then try out the 21mm EVF for a dual purpose role. Just to clarify...do you mean you have and use the EVF or the Brightline finder? And, if it's the Brightline, I take it you're suggesting/recommending the 21mm finder? Interesting! Thanks for your insights and experience on the topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted October 26, 2015 Share #55 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I think it really depends on what type of photographer you are, if you are a 'loose' or not. I regularly shoot my 28, 24 and 18 without even looking though any finder with my M9 or MM, even if I have the OVF mounted on top (and sometimes even longer lenses). The nice thing about super wides is if the moment arises, and you need to take the shot, then you are usually wide enough that no viewing/framing is needed. The great thing about M's has always been the unpredictability of the framing, often leading to more interesting images because one doesn't think too much about it and is therefore more open to the ways of the universe giving what it will give. Of course this can be maddening for some users, and in that case rf camera are probably not the best tool for them. Here's an example with the SEM 18. No time to frame or even put the camera up to the eye; just turn and shoot from low. One chance. That said, an OVF can be very useful for more accurate framing when needed. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 26, 2015 by charlesphoto99 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250847-24mm-lens-without-an-evf-or-finder/?do=findComment&comment=2914312'>More sharing options...
sumolux Posted October 26, 2015 Share #56 Posted October 26, 2015 Just to clarify...do you mean you have and use the EVF or the Brightline finder? And, if it's the Brightline, I take it you're suggesting/recommending the 21mm finder? Interesting! Thanks for your insights and experience on the topic. Indeed I mean the 21mm Brightline finder. I created the confusion as I mis-use the term EVF as 'external view finder' rather than as 'electronic view finder' ;-0) I found the outside edge of the innermost set of lines (for parallax under 2 meters or the M8 crop) within the 21mm frame line provide an accurate outline for 24mm. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share #57 Posted October 27, 2015 Indeed I mean the 21mm Brightline finder. I created the confusion as I mis-use the term EVF as 'external view finder' rather than as 'electronic view finder' ;-0) I found the outside edge of the innermost set of lines (for parallax under 2 meters or the M8 crop) within the 21mm frame line provide an accurate outline for 24mm. Interesting suggestion! I guess the advantage is that one Brightline finder can be used for two different lenses. However, other than that, would it be "better" to use the 24mm finder with the 24mm lens? I'm kinda thinking I'm going to get the 21 or the 24...not both. Presently leaning toward the 24mm Elmar, f3.8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 27, 2015 Share #58 Posted October 27, 2015 Interesting suggestion! I guess the advantage is that one Brightline finder can be used for two different lenses. However, other than that, would it be "better" to use the 24mm finder with the 24mm lens? I'm kinda thinking I'm going to get the 21 or the 24...not both. Presently leaning toward the 24mm Elmar, f3.8. If you need 21 and 24 external finder Voigtlander makes 21/25mm which is allegedly very good, you can choose plastic or metal and metal comes in chrome or black finish. If I didn't have Leicas 21/28 finder I would give V-finder serious consideration. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted October 27, 2015 Share #59 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Leica also used to make a big, non-brightline wideangle zoom finder with 21-24-28mm settings (Leica model 12013, made in Japan). It's really well made, and securely fastens with a screw tightening ring, but you don't get to see outside the field of the selected lens like with a brightline finder. Takes the same eyepiece correction lenses that the M cameras' viewfinders use. Came with a soft leather, padded case. Used ones go for US $200-500, chrome variant sells for more than black anodized. Edited October 27, 2015 by sdk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted October 27, 2015 Share #60 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I shoot with both the 21 Elmarit-M, and 24 Elmarit-M on my M9 using the Leica Universal Viewfinder 12011. While a bit bulky and unattractive, it is a superb finder that has parallax correction, a bubble level, and frame lines for 16,18,21,24, and 28mm lenses. Best of all IMO is that the frame lines are not etched, but actual frames like the ones in the camera viewfinder. And like the those in the camera they are illuminated by an illumination window in the finder. The etched frame lines in the standard finders tend to wash out in very contrasty lighting, while the ones in the Universal Finder remain visible. Since I shoot with a lens hood on all my lenses the finder is also useful when using my 28 Summicron since it eliminates the blockage from the lens hood. While my metal 24mm Leica finder is a much more elegant option (with the 24 Elmarit-M) it stays in my bag. Edited October 27, 2015 by Luke_Miller 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.