Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor)

[jaapv]

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Thanks Leica although this took a long time. I had spots on my M9 and sent it off to an authorised Leica service centre. Sensor was replaced for no cost but my camera was away for five, yes five months. I have had it back for 8 months and it has more sensor spots on it again even though the lens has not been off the camera since I picked it up from the repair centre. I was so disenfranchised my beloved M9 has been sitting hardly used over the last last 8 months while I have been contemplating selling it. Reputations are hard won and easily lost. Leica needs to show the improved service is there now for the long term.

Joe

Well, even unused cameras can pick up dust. The first step would be to blow the spots away with a blower, the second one to have the sensor cleaned, if you are not confident to do so yourself.

[wilfredo]

I think they may have been doing this for a while without saying. I sent my MM to Solms in January this year for a straightforward sensor clean. The feed back was that they weren't happy with the sensor and so had replaced it. It was showing some aberrations (which hadn't been apparent to me).

 

Is this an issue with the MM camera? I haven't had any noticeable issues with mine.

[jhgnag]

Am I crazy to buy an M-E given all the recent news?

[otto.f]

Am I crazy to buy an M-E given all the recent news?

 

Well why? I'd think, if you see it as a stockmarket, an M9-P for instance, is low in price second hand now. Prices will go up again after Leica has solved the problem. Better than buy something new (without frameselector) (without sapphire screen) (etc. ).

[jhgnag]

Well why? I'd think, if you see it as a stockmarket, an M9-P for instance, is low in price second hand now. Prices will go up again after Leica has solved the problem. Better than buy something new (without frameselector) (without sapphire screen) (etc. ).

 

Well, I'm buying a demo with Leica 2 year warranty, but that said, it's starting to sound like the corrosion issue is almost inevitable.

 

I keep wondering if I should wait a little longer and buy an M240....I know....not the same sensor.

[otto.f]

No problems with my M9 (2010) and MM (2012) thus far.

Leica's solution is inevitable too for their survival as a trustworthy company that is supposed to make products that survive their owners

[IkarusJohn]

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I suspect the best risk management for Leica is to get as many M9 owners as possible to migrate to the M(240) at the lowest cost to Leica - that way the problem is limited to those who wish to retain the M9. They will then make an offer to support that small group, but for a limited period - originally, it was 10 years from the date Leica ceased to offer CCD based cameras - that's the M-E and Monochrom (2015? - I'd be amazed if Leica is not moving quickly to find replacements for those cameras).

 

I wouldn't hold out for Leica to find a solution to this problem other than to replace affected sensors and get everyone they can onto the M(240).

[jhgnag]

No problems with my M9 (2010) and MM (2012) thus far.

Leica's solution is inevitable too for their survival as a trustworthy company that is supposed to make products that survive their owners

 

So it sounds like you think if I was ready to buy an M-E before, the recent news shouldn't change my decision.

 

I think what's hard here is that we used to be able to buy a camera and know that we could keep it indefinitely...until we wanted to change or update. In the digital world, electronics become dated, or just stop working...disposable in some sense.

[IkarusJohn]

So it sounds like you think if I was ready to buy an M-E before, the recent news shouldn't change my decision.

 

I think what's hard here is that we used to be able to buy a camera and know that we could keep it indefinitely...until we wanted to change or update. In the digital world, electronics become dated, or just stop working...disposable in some sense.

 

I hate to say it, but that raises the now accepted balance between being an early adopter of new technology or preferring tried and true technology which has all the bugs ironed out. The CCD sensor adopted by Leica seems to be the rather unfortunate combination of yesterday's technology with bugs still not sorted.

 

If it were me, I'd get something else for the moment (Leica T?), start collecting M lenses and wait to see what 2015 brings. The T will always be a useful backup, and it is reasonable to expect an M-E and/or M(240) replacement next year.

 

Cheers

John

 

PS - then again, I could be wrong. I usually am.

[wilfredo]

Is this an issue with the MM camera? I haven't had any noticeable issues with mine.

 

Never mind about responding, I found the info and the MM is among the affected cameras. Not happy about this, but glad to hear Leica is standing behind its product.

[stephen.w]

Well, I'm buying a demo with Leica 2 year warranty, but that said, it's starting to sound like the corrosion issue is almost inevitable.

 

 

 

I keep wondering if I should wait a little longer and buy an M240....I know....not the same sensor.

 

 

I bought one earlier in the year, and couldn't be happier with it as things stand, but I probably wouldn't do it again other than at deep discount, unless Leica announces a permanent fix for the leprous CCD sensor.

[Lao J]

If they are developing a permanent replacement M9 / ME sensor not affected by delamination ( and in the meanwhile replacing existing sensors for free) which this message strongly implies, will they also be developing a replacement MM sensor with different cover glass to permanently fix the MM's? It's nice that they will replace like for like at no charge but as an MM owner I would like to have a permanent solution rather than sending my 8k camera in for a sensor replacement every 2 years, free or otherwise.

I couldn't agree more. What if Leica replaced the body by upgrading the latest model, such as Leica M (typ 240). That's the permanent solution, isn't it? One thing is going to be done by Leica is offer a proper gap price for upgrade replacement. Nowadays, a lot of cars have been recalled for maintanence. If Leica can do it, it will be great. Why do we love Leica? The sole of the quality, the idea of photographing, the desire for real life. We need you, becasue we love you. that's it.

[Lao J]

Dear Forum Members,

 

We have been closely following debates on the CCD sensor issue in forums and blogs and take the opinions and criticism we read very seriously. For us, it is important that we offer only technically faultless products. We are therefore particularly sorry if the imaging quality of your camera should be adversely affected by corrosion effects on the IR filter cover glass. We would also like to express our sincerest regrets to all customers who may have encountered this problem.

 

We have now identified the problem and are currently concentrating our efforts on finding a permanent technical solution. Our response to this problem is a full goodwill arrangement offering free replacement of affected CCD sensors. This goodwill arrangement applies regardless of the age of the camera and also covers sensors that have already been replaced in the past. Customers who have already been charged for the replacement of a sensor affected by this problem will receive a refund.

 

The effect does not affect the CMOS sensor of the Leica M (Typ 240). Should you, as an M customer, be considering an upgrade from your camera to a Leica M or M-P (Typ 240), Customer Care would be pleased to make you an attractive offer following a check of your camera and under consideration of the model and its age.

 

We have posted the details of the problem and the terms and conditions of our goodwill arrangement in the News section of our corporate Web site at Important Information Concerning the CCD Sensors // Global // About Leica News // Leica News // World of Leica - Leica Camera AG an have provided a link to the currently available Leica M Monochrom and M-E models. We will also be notifying our distributors regarding the new terms and conditions.

 

We are aware that Leica’s reputation for superior quality and endurance was the driving factor for your decision for Leica. We profoundly regret that we have been unable to completely fulfil our promise to you and our own standards from the outset. We are now making every effort to find a permanent and satisfactory technical solution for this problem and hope that our goodwill arrangement is able to rebuild and maintain your trust in the Leica brand!

 

Best regards,

 

Stefan Daniel

Director

Product Management Photo

 

My M9P got the CCD sensor changed 5 months ago. Shall I ask for change or upgrade by the new model M-P(typ 240) with a proper gap price? I am sure that is the permanent solution for us. Please don't tell us you can only change it when it is effected. The fact is, it will be effected 2 or 3 years. Do you think the customers would be patient enough for every 2 years repair? I'm wondering whether Leica would bear much cost if he'd like to replace the CCD for every 2 years.

[jhgnag]

Does anyone have a sense for what Leica is or will offer to upgrade to M240, just to provide some perspective?

[fotografr]

Never mind about responding, I found the info and the MM is among the affected cameras. Not happy about this, but glad to hear Leica is standing behind its product.

 

I'll respond anyway because you might want to take a closer look. I recall you spent some time in Cuba and the conditions there are conducive to causing delamination. I didn't think I had the problem either, but when I did the test I discovered otherwise. I'm scheduled for a mid-January sensor replacement.

 

I wonder how the M8 escaped this issue?

[garysamson]

Does anyone have a sense for what Leica is or will offer to upgrade to M240, just to provide some perspective?

 

It would seem only fair to ME Leica owners that they should be offered an upgrade to the M240 for the price difference of the two cameras. I believe this offer was actually made when the ME first came out and everyone was waiting for the M to finally ship.

[Guest]

I must agree with Captain and Wattsy here. There have been many people that forked out hard earned money to chase their dream of owning a Leica and were disappointed by the sensor issue being ignored for such a long time. I had to sell my M9 for mainly financial reasons but really I was always telling myself to sell it regardless, because if the sensor packs up, as so many had done, then I would be sitting with the problem and the costs and stress of dealing with repairs, couriers and replacements.

 

Leica was very slow in coming to this positive response which is graciously accepted and recognised as the right thing that they should have done immediately upon principle and not when the numbers finally told them brand damage was occurring. They have done the right thing now and have offered justice to all affected and we must therefore forgive and forget and continue onwards together with Leica on our journey together.

 

Leica must somehow engrave upon the soul of Leica the following understanding!

 

Leica is the icon of photographic artistic beauty, of endurance, quality and timelessness. People buy one and want it to be their camera for life. A companion.

 

They pay the large sums of money for it so that it lasts a lifetime.

 

In the digital age we are in I don't think a camera body is for life anymore. However I do expect trouble free or relatively trouble free for ten years . Leica produced a camera with a seriously flawed major part which in many cases will not last 5 years if that long. I don't see that they had any choice but follow the route they have taken. I have been considering a Monocrom but shelved the idea 6 months ago when the sensor issue started to develop to see how things progressed . Six weeks ago I asked my usual dealer what he would allow on my 4 year old M9 , not even interested in taking it in PX. Personally the thanks should be directed at this forum, not at Leica. Yes Leica have made a very good response to the problem and once I feel they have solved the sensor delamination problem I will order a new Monocrom. If it is a case that I can possibly expect to need a replacement sensor in the Monocrom after a few years ie they are replacing like with like,I won't buy one. Let's just remind ourselves a Leica digital camera is £5000. Or there abouts depending on model,not exactly small change.

BrianP

[jaapv]

I'll respond anyway because you might want to take a closer look. I recall you spent some time in Cuba and the conditions there are conducive to causing delamination. I didn't think I had the problem either, but when I did the test I discovered otherwise. I'm scheduled for a mid-January sensor replacement.

 

I wonder how the M8 escaped this issue?

 

Different IR filter cover glass.

[jaapv]

My M9P got the CCD sensor changed 5 months ago. Shall I ask for change or upgrade by the new model M-P(typ 240) with a proper gap price? I am sure that is the permanent solution for us. Please don't tell us you can only change it when it is effected. The fact is, it will be effected 2 or 3 years. Do you think the customers would be patient enough for every 2 years repair? I'm wondering whether Leica would bear much cost if he'd like to replace the CCD for every 2 years.

 

Asking to change a perfectly fine sensor seems quite pointless to me. The exchange offer is only for affected owners.

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Hallo,

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[Ivar B]

Asking to change a perfectly fine sensor seems quite pointless to me. The exchange offer is only for affected owners.

 

Perhaps, but not if there is a significant probability that the problem will develop sooner or later anyway. We have no guarantee that Leica will keep the free replacement system indefinately.