platypus Posted March 8, 2015 Share #21 Posted March 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Lets face it folks we are all (or the vast majority of us anyway) fully paid-up members of the Cult of Leica, with all that infers. Why not just enjoy it? 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Hi platypus, Take a look here Summicron 50 APO Disapointing?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted March 8, 2015 Share #22 Posted March 8, 2015 The Leica victim (Dilettante, to be polite) is a funny animal. The not-so-good bouquet would quickly be elevated to Legendary status.Who are we kidding. Mere opinion of an old Nikon user and admirer of the little Nikkor 50/1.8 otherwise. I must have bought it for something like 100 EUR more or less and it is one of my sharper 50s in the center. But its OoF rendition... Nobody has to drink Romanée Contis at each meal and there are very good little wines fortunately . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted March 8, 2015 Share #23 Posted March 8, 2015 If you want something a bit smaller and certainly lighter than the 50 f1.4 asph, perhaps try a 50mm ZM planar. Half the price of a cron and with a slightly different look. Mine is extremely sharp at f2.8 and astonishing at f4. At f2, it is very good but not blistering. It'll certainly be a very cheap experiment compared to the APO. Personally, I think lenses like the 50mm APO Summicron need a lot more than 24mp to have much purpose. Your lux asph gives you a cracking f2 and beyond, so why not just go for something smaller or lighter? Alternatively, if you have $7K to chuck about, why not try the APO, but it isn't much smaller or lighter than what you have. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 8, 2015 Share #24 Posted March 8, 2015 The lens is as close to technical perfect as technology can achieve at the moment. Technical perfection in practice means the removal of as much character as possible. To preserve the reality of the image. Perhaps what you're after is a sprinkling of imperfection. If that's the case, here you go: Leica M 50mm F 1 0 Noctilux Film Digital Rangefinder Lens Used | eBay Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted March 8, 2015 Share #25 Posted March 8, 2015 If you want something a bit smaller and certainly lighter than the 50 f1.4 asph, perhaps try a 50mm ZM planar. Half the price of a cron and with a slightly different look. Mine is extremely sharp at f2.8 and astonishing at f4. At f2, it is very good but not blistering. It'll certainly be a very cheap experiment compared to the APO. There are some comparison images between these two lenses here: May 10, Part 2: The Leica APO-Summicron-M 50/2 ASPH review, and a comparison – Ming Thein | Photographer Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 8, 2015 Share #26 Posted March 8, 2015 I hate to criticize someone who puts himself out there, but I just have to state that Ming Thein's style is not my cup of tea. Every photograph is so over sharpened that you can't tell whether it was taken with a 50 Apo or a point and shoot. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from his comparison test of the 50 Apo and the Zeiss. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted March 8, 2015 Share #27 Posted March 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that the over sharpening culprit may be Flickr. Nevertheless, your point is well made. Online, there is little to distinguish the iPhone from medium format. To be fair, Ming Thein acknowledges this: Photoessay: In the redwood forest – Ming Thein | Photographer I certainly couldn't tell which pictures were 35mm and which medium format. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 8, 2015 Share #28 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) I agree that flickr is a tough one, but I still think he could adjust his workflow. I look at other people's photos on flickr and I don't see the sharpness fetish he displays. This thread on the forum is very balanced and informative regarding the differences between the 50 lux and 50 Apo: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/363402-50-1-4-asph-vs-50-a.html Edited March 8, 2015 by BerndReini 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted March 8, 2015 Share #29 Posted March 8, 2015 I hate to criticize someone who puts himself out there, but I just have to state that Ming Thein's style is not my cup of tea. Every photograph is so over sharpened that you can't tell whether it was taken with a 50 Apo or a point and shoot. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from his comparison test of the 50 Apo and the Zeiss. Well to hit a note of reality, he not nearly as much of an actual photographer as he is a blogger. If he did not have his web hero presence, I doubt anyone would know who he is. There are much, *much* better examples of great photography done by actual income earning pros who also put out a good blog piece once and awhile. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted March 8, 2015 Share #30 Posted March 8, 2015 Well to hit a note of reality, he not nearly as much of an actual photographer as he is a blogger. There are a number of well-known American bloggers who do reviews / take photos, but are not what would be generally thought of as photographers. I don't think that that is the case with MT About – Ming Thein | Photographer Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 8, 2015 Share #31 Posted March 8, 2015 Again, I'm not saying he isn't a photographer, but his self-portrait is the best example for his over-sharpening of images. Look at his ear and the seems and collar of his shirt. It looks like a zipper. You have to sharpen images for the medium they are displayed in. Why? And he still loves shooting film. When have you ever seen a black and white silver print that looks that over-sharpened? Anyways, output-sharpening is difficult and a matter of personal taste, but I can tell you that what Ming does to his photographs online will ruin many subtle qualities a lens can possess. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted March 8, 2015 Share #32 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) There are a number of well-known American bloggers who do reviews / take photos, but are not what would be generally thought of as photographers. I don't think that that is the case with MT About – Ming Thein | Photographer But that is what I am trying to point out....most ***really*** talented and successful shooters I know would not have anywhere near the time that this guy does to do blogs...tons and tons of blogs and gear reviews, workshops, etc. And his work is only ok, so I don't value the whole opinion overall very much...lots of words, not a lot of good solid work. And lots of potential clients are very skeptical of these web hero types to get the actual work done. For example, a regular client of mine was furious after they got burned a few years back by hiring one of the biggest mouths in the pro/blogger/web sensation genres ever. This person is known usually for some darn good work too. But when hired to do a week long shoot that cost entirely too much to begin with, they were left with very sub par shots as the internet hero made it a big priority to keep up the "Webaneering" up instead of making great shots happen. Back on topic...I would love to see some brilliant photography made with the 50 Apo but I gave up in searching because much of it is......not good. Edited March 9, 2015 by KM-25 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted March 9, 2015 Share #33 Posted March 9, 2015 What a mega poseur. Pathetic. Ah yeah, he once cried publicly that no galleries wanted his work. What? He really thought for a milli-second that it was art? Reality check for this guy, please! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Russell Posted March 9, 2015 Share #34 Posted March 9, 2015 There are much, *much* better examples of great photography done by actual income earning pros who also put out a good blog piece once and awhile. And much, much better photography done by amateurs earning zero. Being a "pro" is not necessarily an indication of any sort of quality, talent or skill. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackstraw Posted March 9, 2015 Share #35 Posted March 9, 2015 In the audio world, there was a debate about the "best sound." Depending upon what one liked, there were adherents of analog vs digital. It has been pretty widely agreed that the standard, the "absolute sound" was that which most clearly mimicked a live performance in concert hall conditions. Quite a few prefer digitally altered sound that one would never hear live. To me, the APO 50 delivers the most consistent version of that which our eyes and our cameras actually see. This is not to knock those lenses with distinctive signatures, many of which are quite pleasing. It is just that the APO 50, is free of a distinctive signature. It renders most closely to reality.. Some may find that disappointing. I certainly don't. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted March 9, 2015 Share #36 Posted March 9, 2015 "It has been pretty widely agreed that the standard, the "absolute sound" was that which most clearly mimicked a live performance in concert hall conditions". Actually, not quite... I have spent 35 years in the audio industry, much of it at Linn but a lot of time in recording studios and been present at cutting and mastering as varied as Grace Jones (Trevor Horn production) and Elton John (Gus Dudgeon). I spent hours with Gus one day remastering Tumbleweed Connection at The Townhouse in London. (Gus, sadly died a few years ago, but a real character and one of the music worlds greats). There is absolutely no way to get any recording to sound like a live recording at a concert hall, and if you did, it would be rejected by every record company and most of the buying public. The best you can do is get as close to the output of the mastering desk... and that is what current true state of the art audio actually does. However, there are many people who love the sound of valves, electrostatic loudspeakers, horn speakers... all sorts.. they all have very little to do with accuracy... but a lot of people out there are quite happy to make their own favourite music take on their own preferred colouration... and that's fine... but it isn't real and it isn't accurate. A bit like the sub set of photographers who prefer a different take on their results. All perfectly fine... I like black and white with my Lux 50... it isn't real at all, but I love the look I get... and isn't that what it is about..? (Apart from in hifi of course... then you SHOULD get what the original artist/producer wanted...!) 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted March 9, 2015 Share #37 Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure where this criticism of Ming Thein is going. Are (some of) you saying that he is not a good enough photographer and his processing is too bad to be able to take his comments on the 50mm APO seriously and that it is better than he says, or that it isn't as good as he is saying? The point seems to have been lost in the assault on his photography credentials. If the former, lets not forget that he does say its the best 50mm he has ever used by a small but clear margin. If the latter, he does indeed say that the differences between the lens 50 APO and Planar are not as great as some of the examples he shows suggest. Either way, it seems a pretty reasonable set of conclusions and I don't think anyone could profess to be surprised. Anyone who is a serious photographer knows how much 1:1 differences are diluted by the time you are looking at a real print at sensible print sizes relative to the pixel count. Whoever seriously expects any 50mm f2 to be dramatically better than the 50mm ZM planar on 24mp, perhaps aside from wide open and a stop down at best, is best described as optimistic. This is before one even gets onto the topic of 'how much it matters'. The 50mm Planar is regarded as one of the finest 50mm lenses ever made, especially past f2.8 and as yet, there are only 24mp to play with! With 36 or 50mp differences, in resolution at least, might be much more obvious. I hope its possible to discuss this without it turning into a T shirt wearing assault on Mr Thein. I don't ever recall him making great claims about him own brilliance and artistic talent. I am only familiar with the free resource he provides with far more grace and modesty than at least one of the above posts. P.S. If anyone can point us to a great review of the 50mm APO by a well-known pro, using it for work, then I would be very interested to see it. I'm sure you get my point. Edited March 9, 2015 by batmobile 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 9, 2015 Share #38 Posted March 9, 2015 Being a "pro" is not necessarily an indication of any sort of quality, talent or skill. Nor is using the 'best' lens money can buy;). The Summicron APO is what it is, a statement by Leica that they can produce a 'superlative quality' lens. I seriously doubt that anyone will make any 'better' photos because they use this lens although no doubt there will be internet arguments over this. I have no problem with anyone buying this lens at all but I have a great deal of problems with anyone thinking that they can illustrate its characteristics by using internet posted imagery. As for it being disappointing, well anything is disappointing if bought for the wrong reason. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted March 9, 2015 Share #39 Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Here is a video review by someone called Pedro Ferreira And here is Erwin Puts' technical comparison with a Zeiss Distagon. http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/apo-summicron-m-250-mm-asph.html (Part 1, on the same site, is a more qualitative description of the lens.) Edited March 9, 2015 by jrp 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsv Posted March 9, 2015 Share #40 Posted March 9, 2015 I'm still discovering this new purchase. So far, my impression is that to me it really delivers more than either the Summicron 50 last two versions and the Summilux 50 ASPH. Its rendering is more natural. OOC is much more true to what I saw when releasing the shutter. It's unbelievably sharp. It's OOF to me is better than what I see from the other two lenses. No, I'm not making better shots than before, but the rendering quality has certainly improved (both on screen and in print, printing it to A3+). For one reason or another, it even is easier and more convenient in B/W conversion in Silver Efex Pro. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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