D-Lux type 109 or Panasonic LX100. Choice now more difficult

[West_1]

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@ Le Chef

 

You don't seem to grasp the basics of marketing 101 and what sets Leica apart from the other brands.

Enjoy your Chinese made Leica, it should really turn heads in your Indian built Ferrari.

[Le Chef]

I've spent 30 successful years in marketing on two continents and 6 countries with Fortune 50 multinationals, so I've figured out when people don't know what they're talking about and when they do.

 

In Global economy country of manufacture is an irrelevance unless there is a unique skill attached to that location.

 

What you're actually saying is you are prejudiced against the Chinese and believe that Leica is deliberately choosing to damage their brand by manufacturing there.

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Who says Leica manufactures the D-Lux, anyway?

[Thomas Chen]

All Apple's products including the latest i-Phone 6 and 5K i-Mac with retina display are all made in China.

[Le Chef]

Who says Leica manufactures the D-Lux, anyway?

 

Many global companies manufacture under license or subcontract to third parties. Whether the plant has Leice's name on it or not is irrelevant. The point is they set the quality control standards they need to meet consumers' brand expectations.

 

These days you don't have to manufacture in Europe with its bloated labor costs to produce a high quality product. Witness BMW, and Mercedes that have global standards regardless of origin of production.

[pop]

Many global companies manufacture under license or subcontract to third parties. hether the plant has Leice's name on it or not is irrelevant. The point is they set the quality control standards they need to meet consumers' brand expectations.

 

These days you don't have to manufacture in Europe with its bloated labor costs to produce a high quality product. Witness BMW, and Mercedes that have global standards regardless of origin of production.

 

Of course. It is only that the D-Lux and C-Lux series are wholly designed and built by Panasonic and are sold under that label as well. I know of no evidence which shows that those are made under anything but the standards Panasonic applies anyway. Up to now, those cameras used to be made in Japan with its bloated labor costs.

[dorman]

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Maybe those of you who feel strongly about global manufacturing strategy would consider starting a new thread in Barnack's Bar to debate the issue.

[kdriceman]

I have now had my LX100 for 5 days and used it extensively this weekend. Below is a Dropbox link with a selection of images. Inside the folder are JPG and RAW subfolders containing the same images in JPG and RAW formats respectively. JPGs are straight out of the camera JPGs set on "Standard". I have done no RAW processing yet, so I can't comment on working with the raw files. ACR/LR do not have an LX100-compatible update yet. The camera comes with SilkyPix 4.3 which will process the raw files, but I have not installed it yet. The camera does allow some raw processing in-camera and I fiddled with it for a few minutes, but it is understandably cumbersome and not the way I want to process my raw files.

 

Overall I like the camera very much. It has a solid, well-built feel to it. I found the user-interface and menu setup to be much easier to use and more intuitive than most digital cameras. I'm satisfied with the image quality. It is no M240, but pretty good for a mid-sized sensor camera. I like the ergonomics and size. It is just about the right size for my hands and I like the built-in hand and thumb grips very much. My only complaint is that the exposure compensation dial is too easily bumped by my thumb and it moved several times while using the camera - changing exposure of course. The EVF is very nice and usable, although does have the standard post-shot blackout. It is not as big as the XT1, but is still bigger and brighter than my Nex 6 EVF.

 

Auto focus is fast and accurate and is pretty good even in low light. Like any AF the user needs to understand how it works and realize that it isn't perfect. I did miss some focus from time to time, but since there are multiple permutations of AF modes, tracking modes and AF subject selection options it could be user error. I used some video and, although I'm not a video guy, it seems very good. I'm particularly impressed by the AF capabilities of the video.

 

This camera satisfies my needs for a small, auto-focus, zoom lens camera better than any I've used. My Nex is just a little too bulky and I've been un-impressed with the zoom lenses for it (especially the smaller zoom lenses); I've used the RX100III and find it actually too small and I like the 4/3 sensor better; Most of the other large sensor point and shoots I've used either have no integrated EVF (a must for me) or sub-par lenses or are too big.

 

After using it for the weekend I have decided to keep it and will likely cancel my order for the Leica version. I don't see any reason to wait for the DLux 109 and pay more when I'm certain I will want the hand-grip of the LX100, I don't think the extra warranty is worth $300 and I don't need another copy of LR. It strikes me that we may not see the DLux 109 until Adobe updates LR for the camera. I don't see how Leica can ship a camera with a copy of LR and not have LR be able to process the raw files.

 

In the end, it won't replace my M240 for IQ and it won't replace my 7D Mk II for sports and action where long lenses and real auto-focus is needed. But for a general, flexible, small camera I will use it a lot.

 

Here is the link to the image files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly6cqc2jekm0xlt/AAAuZcJ0n8UzU9uj1pVCq7j9a?dl=0

[Thomas Chen]

IHere is the link to the image files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly6cqc2jekm0xlt/AAAuZcJ0n8UzU9uj1pVCq7j9a?dl=0

 

I just downloaded the files. Apple Aperture 3.6 cannot open the Raw files, while the color rendering and IQ of Jpeg files are very good viewed from the Apple 15" MacPro with Retina Dispaly.

 

As LX100 allows setting color space as "AdobeRGB" in addition to "sRGB", would you please share another batch of files of landscape focusing at infinity and color space as "AdobeRGB" at your earliest convenient time.

 

Thanks a lot.

[Dopaco]

LX100 silver looks alike to Diguilux2 improved ..:

 

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Leica D-lux109, there is no color silver...:

 

[Dopaco]

what color do you like more?........:

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[HarryW]

Hi All,

Coming from an M2 and using Tri-X for most of my photography, the only digital camera that I have is a D-lux 3 so I'm coming from an 8 year old camera up to the present and would say that I was exceptionally impressed with the LX100 that I tried out today in Jessops in Glasgow.

 

The size is good, the weight feels just about right which I think gives it a quality feel and it seems to be exceptionally well made. I don't use any form of grip on my D-Lux 3 and so found the grip on the LX100 a bit off putting but that's just me and what I'm used to.

 

I have no experience of EVF's but this one seemed to suit me fine and it will be good to get back to a more comfortable way of taking photographs and away from squinting at the screen on my D-Lux 3 in bright sunlight not that we get a lot of that in the West of Scotland.

 

The price difference in the UK is presently £126 and for me that is fine as I don't have a copy of LR and the additional two year Leica warranty is important.

 

Looking forward to the D-Lux being released, just wish Leica would hurry up.

[Dopaco]

I have now had my LX100 for 5 days and used it extensively this weekend. Below is a Dropbox link with a selection of images. Inside the folder are JPG and RAW subfolders containing the same images in JPG and RAW formats respectively. JPGs are straight out of the camera JPGs set on "Standard". I have done no RAW processing yet, so I can't comment on working with the raw files. ACR/LR do not have an LX100-compatible update yet. The camera comes with SilkyPix 4.3 which will process the raw files, but I have not installed it yet. The camera does allow some raw processing in-camera and I fiddled with it for a few minutes, but it is understandably cumbersome and not the way I want to process my raw files.

 

Overall I like the camera very much. It has a solid, well-built feel to it. I found the user-interface and menu setup to be much easier to use and more intuitive than most digital cameras. I'm satisfied with the image quality. It is no M240, but pretty good for a mid-sized sensor camera. I like the ergonomics and size. It is just about the right size for my hands and I like the built-in hand and thumb grips very much. My only complaint is that the exposure compensation dial is too easily bumped by my thumb and it moved several times while using the camera - changing exposure of course. The EVF is very nice and usable, although does have the standard post-shot blackout. It is not as big as the XT1, but is still bigger and brighter than my Nex 6 EVF.

 

Auto focus is fast and accurate and is pretty good even in low light. Like any AF the user needs to understand how it works and realize that it isn't perfect. I did miss some focus from time to time, but since there are multiple permutations of AF modes, tracking modes and AF subject selection options it could be user error. I used some video and, although I'm not a video guy, it seems very good. I'm particularly impressed by the AF capabilities of the video.

 

This camera satisfies my needs for a small, auto-focus, zoom lens camera better than any I've used. My Nex is just a little too bulky and I've been un-impressed with the zoom lenses for it (especially the smaller zoom lenses); I've used the RX100III and find it actually too small and I like the 4/3 sensor better; Most of the other large sensor point and shoots I've used either have no integrated EVF (a must for me) or sub-par lenses or are too big.

 

After using it for the weekend I have decided to keep it and will likely cancel my order for the Leica version. I don't see any reason to wait for the DLux 109 and pay more when I'm certain I will want the hand-grip of the LX100, I don't think the extra warranty is worth $300 and I don't need another copy of LR. It strikes me that we may not see the DLux 109 until Adobe updates LR for the camera. I don't see how Leica can ship a camera with a copy of LR and not have LR be able to process the raw files.

 

In the end, it won't replace my M240 for IQ and it won't replace my 7D Mk II for sports and action where long lenses and real auto-focus is needed. But for a general, flexible, small camera I will use it a lot.

 

Here is the link to the image files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly6cqc2jekm0xlt/AAAuZcJ0n8UzU9uj1pVCq7j9a?dl=0

 

Thank you..

 

Excellent contribution..

 

LX100 .. in color silver or negress?...

Edited November 11, 2014 by Dopaco

[kdriceman]

Thank you..

 

Excellent contribution..

 

LX100 .. in color silver or negress?...

 

 

Black.

[C Lei Lux]

Hi All,

 

the first 24 sample images von ming thein - D-Lux Typ 109 and Lumix LX100

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mingthein

[hbmobile]

Hi All,

 

the first 24 sample images von ming thein - D-Lux Typ 109 and Lumix LX100]

 

'Sample images' with less than 1 Megapixels? Not really.

[C Lei Lux]

Hi All,

 

24. november 2014 news:

 

review: Panasonic LX 100 / Leica D-Lux 109

 

autor: Ming Thein

 

Ming Thein | Photographer

 

kind regards,

 

mike

(klaus-michael)

[colonel]

Of course. It is only that the D-Lux and C-Lux series are wholly designed and built by Panasonic and are sold under that label as well. I know of no evidence which shows that those are made under anything but the standards Panasonic applies anyway. Up to now, those cameras used to be made in Japan with its bloated labor costs.

 

I remember reading an interview with someone at Leica, which I will try to dig up, which basically said that the Panasonic compacts are joint designs between Panasonic and Leica. Leica typically advises and designs the lenses.

 

The cameras are however produced entirely by Panasonic, and the Leica variants are made on the same production line.

[georg]

I am a production engineer and my work, our technology, innovation and level of quality relies on our highly-skilled and trained production workers (at least 42 months training before starting the job). They can manufacture, adjust and decide in critical situations - all of them could easily afford a product like the D-Lux or other luxury goods - a Chinese production worker cannot.

Together we can develop & manufacture technologies and products that are crucial to many consumer goods and not available "Made in China" for a reason.

We spent millions of € on implementing highly advanced technology to be able to sustain our production at the same location for another century without harming our environment.

 

Comparing that to Chinese work conditions is an insult to all what we have achieved, how we improved our situation in one century and throwing it all away for the financial industry and unlimited growth...

 

The Chinese might be able to compete one day but not without improving their standards past the medieval mindset of stupid, worthless non-sustainable mass production - we will pay all for that if our mindest does not change, either.

 

When you think that "Made in Germany" or "Made in Japan" makes no difference to "Made in China", sent your kids to one of the production locations of Panasonic, Mercedes, Foxconn in China... and let them work there in the so-called comparable production environment!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Lux

[Le Chef]

What you say is likely true. But as a buyer of the end product I don't care about how much has been invested for the long haul - let's face it we assume built in obsolescence on technology so the long haul is discounted. I care about the quality I see in front of me and that I've read about in reviews, as I'm handing over my credit card.

 

The rest is up to my government and yours and how they handle protectionism, price dumping, and intellectual property theft.