blueuser Posted March 13, 2014 Share #1 Posted March 13, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I have just purchased a Leica M type 240 with a second hand Summicron 50 with serial 365xxxx. A great combination and a joy to shoot with getting more and more used to the range finder concept. But I have noticed a serious flare issue which ruined some of my shots. In the pics below I have tried to demonstrate the problem: 1. A picture of a lamp, flare is as expected. No UV-filter and F 4.0 http://4.static.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/53300312/c338f9ead14548a6bff3c678b7f2a2c0 2. I tilt my camera down to avoid the lamp. There is some flare but still as expected. http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/53300312/ddbe06c11d29436a844532704ce09580 3. Tilting camera further down and suddenly a burst of flare fill one third of the frame. http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/53300312/bf7d36550d5c4bdba0ecaad7c5cc7060 I know that this example is a bit extreme, but light from windows did also created this effect. Another problem is that you don't see it when using the range finder. I think the problem is caused by reflections in the lens barrel as in the picture below: http://1.static.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/53300312/69bd101a05554be79f9f575f78406cf8 The questions is: Has somebody else experienced this and is is possible to fix it Thanks in advance Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Hi blueuser, Take a look here Summicron 50 flare. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bill W Posted March 13, 2014 Share #2 Posted March 13, 2014 While others may chime in with more detail, I believe the tried and true 50 Summicron is more subject to flare but what I see is not unexpected. You will not see flare in the range finder since you are not getting an image through the lens. Possible in live view though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted March 13, 2014 Share #3 Posted March 13, 2014 I have a 50 Summicron V4, 3448- that appears to be from about 1979. The machined ridges at the back of the optical cell are a lot smaller/finer than those in your last image. More matte as well. I've heard the 50 Summicron is prone to flair but I seem to rarely shoot in the manner that creates it (I shoot film only). Perhaps someone with a SN closer to yours will post. Good luck, s-a Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted March 13, 2014 Share #4 Posted March 13, 2014 This is normal behaviour of the 50mm Summicron. Get a larger/longer lens hood and/or go out and shoot some images and stop worring about it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 13, 2014 Share #5 Posted March 13, 2014 I fully agree, this is how that type of lens acts. And no, this behaviour is not caused by a reflection of light at the end of the barrel, but instead by internal reflections. Unfortunately, the only way to avoid it is to use a longer lenshood. However, in practice I have only very rarely experienced this problem myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Michel Posted March 13, 2014 Share #6 Posted March 13, 2014 Mine dates from 1967 or 68. I can make it flare if I want to! It really is not an issue to worry about. Do use a lens-hood. it helps in many ways. Jean-Michel Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueuser Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted March 13, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you very much for all replies. I did not buy the camera and lens for shooting a lamp to see flare - this is just a test to show a problem that occurred when I was shooting as normal. In this instance I was invited to a little unformal party and was asked to take some candids in available light. Normally not a problem with my Canon 5D. But with my new tool many of my shots were ruined. If my new tool was cheap I would understand, but I paid 6800,- euros and did not expect that kind of behaviour. Johan Fuller at photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum have figured out a kind of solution: But I am afraid to do that if the thin black cardboard get of and fall into the camera. That's why I hoped that there were a more official fix to that problem. Cheers 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted March 13, 2014 Share #8 Posted March 13, 2014 The Summicrons (35 and 50, don't know about the 28) are very flare prone. Get Summiluxes or Zeiss lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 13, 2014 Share #9 Posted March 13, 2014 If my new tool was cheap I would understand, but I paid 6800,- euros and did not expect that kind of behaviour.] I honestly don't know what you expect, this is 'photography 101', and expecting miracles just because you spent some money is absurd. Different lenses behave in different ways depending on their design and the situation they are used in. So just because your Canon lens behaves well in this situation doesn't mean the Summicron won't improve upon it in another. But essentially you can't ignore the basic's of photography, if you are going to use the camera right up against bright lights a bigger lens hood is common sense. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
humerc Posted March 13, 2014 Share #10 Posted March 13, 2014 I sold my Summicron 50 because of the flares. Bought the Summilux 50 ASPH instead, Now I am very happy, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted March 13, 2014 Share #11 Posted March 13, 2014 The Summicrons (35 and 50, don't know about the 28) are very flare prone. Get Summiluxes or Zeiss lenses. This is, in the generalized way it is put, nonsense. The Summicron 50 with the built-in hood is more prone to flare than the one with the separate hood Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 13, 2014 Share #12 Posted March 13, 2014 ...3. Tilting camera further down and suddenly a burst of flare fill one third of the frame.http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/53300312/bf7d36550d5c4bdba0ecaad7c5cc7060 All lenses do that more or less including the Summilux asph: http://tllg.net/4wPK Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 14, 2014 Share #13 Posted March 14, 2014 Years back when this first surfaced, people added a paper mask behind the lens. Size the circle to fit near the rear element and cut a rectangle 2x3 proportion as large as you can in the mask. Blacken. Install with some dabs of rubber cement which easily peal away later. Many lens manufacturers use this idea, but it is more sophisticated in execution. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueuser Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks to all for replies. The dealer in the photo store from where I purchased the lens send me some self-adhesive black felt. I fitted it to the inside of the lens barrel and that helped a lot. The rest of the flare might be avoided with a longer lens hood. I made a video which shows the effect before and after: summicron_before_after | Flickr - Photo Sharing! And please don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my new M type 240. It is so unobtrusive that people don't really notice it comparing to my Canon gear which really "flashes" photog at work. Cheers 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted March 18, 2014 Share #15 Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks! Very interesting! So far I know, till now as the cause of the flare problem was only discussed the length of the lens hood. Elmar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plewislambert Posted March 18, 2014 Share #16 Posted March 18, 2014 "I sold my Summicron 50 because of the flares. Bought the Summilux 50 ASPH instead, Now I am very happy," I used various lenses with a Leica M4-P and suffered flare, most often with the 50mm (and not once with the 1960s 90mm f2.8 Elmarit that was reputed to suffer badly from flare, possibly because I used a long close hood on it). I sold the 50mm because the flare was unpredictable and bought a 40mm Summicron which rarely suffers from flare, if ever, possibly because it has a hood permanently fitted. I have an M9 now. Wide-angle lenses such as the 12mm Heliar and 17mm Tokina are inclined to suffer flare because effective hooding is difficult to achieve and often the image includes bright sky/sun and flare can result. It isn't a frequent problem in England but I haven't tried them on an M9 in a sunny country. Philip Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 18, 2014 Share #17 Posted March 18, 2014 You all suffer from flare because you underrate Summarits 50 and 35. Get one of these Summarits instead and you will never see flare again Franco 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted March 18, 2014 Share #18 Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks blueuser for the video; always nice to see empirical data. Glad you like your M240, but it appears it's the lens giving you the trouble. Perhaps a concise, polite letter to Solms, with a link to the video, if you're of a mind to. They might very well find the data useful too. thanks s-a Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted March 19, 2014 Share #19 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I did some tests with 3 different Leica 50s last summer - some of which might be relevant here. The tests are hidden in the endless "APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging" thread, see posts 119-121 and 143-146. One good thing with the M240 is that you can use the view finder to see the flaring - perhaps not subtle loss of contrast, but certainly traditional flaring. And of course, flaring can be used in an artistic manner, e.g. Overgaard. Edited March 19, 2014 by helged Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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