lct Posted December 8, 2013 Share #141 Posted December 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...Keep in mind that an A7r with 24 to 70 is a lighter than an M and 50 Summicron without an EVF. 73 x 94mm for this f/4 lens alone... Taller than a Leica 75/1.4 or 90/2... Not exactly what i'm dreaming about. I know that prime and zoom lenses are not the same thing but Leica will do smaller hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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AlanG Posted December 9, 2013 Share #142 Posted December 9, 2013 73 x 94mm for this f/4 lens alone... Taller than a Leica 75/1.4 or 90/2... Not exactly what i'm dreaming about. I know that prime and zoom lenses are not the same thing but Leica will do smaller hopefully. The Sony 16-50 APS lens is collapsible and makes for a compact package on the A7 or Nex bodies. A lot of people knock this lens but I like it... distortion, soft corners, vignetting and all. There are always tradeoffs when reducing size but maybe they'll some day make a collapsible zoom for the A7. The A7R and 24-70 may not be tiny but are reasonably small and light... and we are talking about a 36MP full frame system with built in EVF and grip. I think it is about the same weight and size as the X Vario with an EVF. What no built in flash? On the next model I presume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 9, 2013 Share #143 Posted December 9, 2013 ...we are talking about a 36mm full frame system... You, yes, but me pretty well the contrary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 9, 2013 Share #144 Posted December 9, 2013 You, yes, but me pretty well the contrary. I meant 36MP not 36mm. (I edited the post.) Actually, for a light, small camera, the Nex 6 is fine for me and I'd prefer it to the A7 for portability. I haven't bought an A7r yet and am on the fence for why I need one. It appeals to me for possibly higher res and perhaps better dynamic range for architectural work, not due to its size or weight. If I didn't already have satisfactory cameras, buying it would be a no-brainer and would have cost less than what I have now. (And I might not have bought the Nex either.) There are plenty of APS and M 4/3rds that are smaller than the A7 and will do the job for many people. What is Leica going to bring to the table in that market? The world's best and most expensive APS lenses? It will be interesting to see how many APS owners will spend $3000 for a 22mm f1.8. Maybe they won't be able to keep them very small if they have to be so good. Where is their advanced electronic technology going to come from that is better than what Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, and Olympus have? Most likely they'll be partnering and using relatively similar technology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted December 9, 2013 Share #145 Posted December 9, 2013 I like what the Sony A7r because of what it has done to the market... wink wink. Full frame loveliness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 9, 2013 Share #146 Posted December 9, 2013 I like what the Sony A7r because of what it has done to the market... wink wink. Full frame loveliness FF appeal was limited. Old fashion, chunky and big reflex cameras and the superexpensive M system. That was all. Smaller and more affordable mirrorless cameras were APSC or 4/3. Sony changed that. Now FF cameras are small and affordable too, and ready for the mass market. It is a game changer. But Leica may offer APSC and FF cameras in different ranges of prices. My point is I have doubts about the profitability of a premium APS system at this moment. But I see the possibility. It might work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 9, 2013 Share #147 Posted December 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...There are plenty of APS and M 4/3rds that are smaller than the A7 and will do the job for many people. What is Leica going to bring to the table in that market? The world's best and most expensive APS lenses?... Yes hopefully and also more affordable Summarits i guess but such an APS would be the only one to fit all M lenses perfectly as well and this alone would be a good reason for people wanting a small high quality outfit IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 9, 2013 Share #148 Posted December 9, 2013 Yes hopefully and also more affordable Summarits i guess but such an APS would be the only one to fit all M lenses perfectly as well and this alone would be a good reason for people wanting a small high quality outfit IMHO. I think none has any interest in using M lenses in crop mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 9, 2013 Share #149 Posted December 9, 2013 I do. Remember R-D1 and M8 users? They are still here and other photogs whose pockets are not wide enough for FF Ms but more than happy to use their old or new M lenses on a Leica w/o the vignetting and smearing problems of Sony and others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2013 Share #150 Posted December 9, 2013 I think none has any interest in using M lenses in crop mode. But long tele lenses is another story. To be able to get a longer reach at the same (better?) image quality and relatively wide aperture is a very interesting aspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2013 Share #151 Posted December 9, 2013 If Leica is thinking about an APS-C sensor today it shows how out of it they truly are. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that the needs and wishes of this rather select group of photography fanatics is representative of the mindset of the camera buying public in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted December 9, 2013 Share #152 Posted December 9, 2013 One of the best things about my D7000 is the effect on the long lenses, the 80-200/2.8 becomes 120-300 effectively and the softer corners are chopped off. Same with the 400/5.6. These are modest lenses compared to Leica's beauties but stretch my capabilities anyway. Shame there aren't decent wide angle primes for it. Ideal world for me would be to use Leica M wides I have on full frame digital, but I am wondering if this will ever be possible, even leica seems to struggle to get it to work with shortage of Ms and problems with M9 etc sensors, and these are outside my price range anyway and of many others too I think. Crop might be the way forward, use the Ricoh GXR as inspiration. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 9, 2013 Share #153 Posted December 9, 2013 Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that the needs and wishes of this rather select group of photography fanatics is representative of the mindset of the camera buying public in general. I think you're right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 9, 2013 Share #154 Posted December 9, 2013 Leica's public is not public in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 9, 2013 Share #155 Posted December 9, 2013 Plenty of people are buying crop sensor cameras, and many don't really know what FF means or even care. If Leica were marketing their new system at the 'advanced amateur' or pro markets then I would agree that they will probably fail with APS-C, but I expect they are going to target the 'luxury gift' market more so (the type of people who will shop at Burlington Arcade for example). As with the X Vario, I doubt that the new camera/system is meant to appeal to current M users. Leica are after new customers, and more customers, and mostly relying on their brand to appeal to people who want to buy something more exclusive than a Fuji or Sony camera. That's how I see it anyway. Further down the line I'm certain we'll see a FF AF system but not while there is still healthy demand for the M system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted December 9, 2013 Share #156 Posted December 9, 2013 I think none has any interest in using M lenses in crop mode. If Leica offered a Contax G-sized APS-C M at a good price, I think that would be pretty sweet. My guess is many others would also welcome that. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 9, 2013 Share #157 Posted December 9, 2013 Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that the needs and wishes of this rather select group of photography fanatics is representative of the mindset of the camera buying public in general. Which is mostly a market for smart phones now. Stand alone cameras will primarily be used by enthusiasts and knowledgeable photographers as time goes on. I can imagine Leica making a variety of cameras. But long term if they don't modernize and expand the M system they will lose their primary support in the market. They know that and this the reason they went with live view and a clip on EVF for the M. Now they are at the point where the M system is coming under further attack from a new model - the A7 and its system of AF lenses. They will have to answer this somehow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 9, 2013 Share #158 Posted December 9, 2013 If Leica offered a Contax G-sized APS-C M at a good price, I think that would be pretty sweet. My guess is many others would also welcome that. John There are a lot of people who feel that way on this forum. I guess the most accurate market test we have is the comparison of numbers of M8 cameras sold (APS-H crop) against M9 cameras (full frame). Both had teething problems typical of any new camera - from a market offering perspective, the difference was crop vs full frame. Another crop camera is not going to have that point of difference. The only full frame, non-dSLR digital cameras on the market are the Sony RX-1, A7 and the Leica M cameras. How many crop digital cameras are there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJH Posted December 10, 2013 Share #159 Posted December 10, 2013 Just look at the second hand market for the 7D or D300, its barely changed over the past couple of years as many folks want precisely what those cameras offer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted December 10, 2013 Share #160 Posted December 10, 2013 Considering the recently introduced full frame camera options I think Leica really needs to step up and produce something similar. The APS-C sensor cameras work and they have some real benefits but because of the Sony offering it may seem a bit "redundant" to consumers.= And therfore difficult to sell to the Leica premium customer base. So Full Frame mirror less body with EVF, auto focus legacy lenses... And adapters for the M, R (and possibly the S lenses) Much the same as the Sony but made in Germany with the same quality "feel" of the X1 cameras. That may impact on the M system but that's probably happening right now with the Sony option anyway so Leica needs to provide an option. I know what I'd buy if I had a choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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