Anatomy of the Leica M8

[carstenw]

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You're right about my attitude to the camera. I do prefer it to the other two, not least because I backed off the shutter release adjustment screws which has removed the grittiness of the release. Now, it's a much more fluid, silky, release even if the pressure points are "smeared". When the warranty expires on the other two (no point voiding 3 warranties!), I'll do the same on those, it's only 7 screws and 2 minutes to get the top off.

 

Mark, could you post the steps to do this, as well as the tools needed? I am considering giving it a shot, and would like to evaluate it before trying.

[sandymc]

Pretty good chance they're using something like the Analog Devices 997x series - specifically built for CCD applications, timing generators and PGA built in....

 

Sandy

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[marknorton]

Thank you! These are all taken with a Nikon D2X with a 60mm f2.8 macro lens and the new macro flash mounted on the front.

 

The sensor is bonded to the carrier plate, precisely positioned with the sensor board soldered on the back - 4 rows of 15 pins. You're correct it's not possible to see the front of the board without unsoldering it and that was a step too far!

 

The sensor has precise timing requirements and I thought they would use the Kodak clock chip (KSC-1000 timing generator) but I can see no evidence of it. Instead, it's likely they are using the Xilinx as a programmable timing generator so that they can fine tune it in firmware. The firmeare update includes a load for the Xilinx.

 

As regards the ADC, things like grounding, stray capacitance and inductance will significantly affect performance so it's important to keep the ADC physically close to the sensor.

 

My guess is that the ADC is on the other sie of the board and the most likely candidate is a dual 14 bit ADC from Analog Devices, something like this:

 

Analog Devices AD9248 - Dual 14-Bit, 20/40/65 MSPS, 3 V Analog-to-Digital Converter

 

It may also be quite simple to interface the ADC directly to the Blackfin processor.

[hugov]

Sandy, you're probably right, but the 997x series specifically don't seem to have anything that is 16-bits and fast enough. Do you know of other manufacturers that make CCD-specific ADC/AFE devices?

 

On a side note, I still have some doubts that it is in fact true 16-bit - seems suspicious that Leica designed in a 16-bit ADC but it only outputs 8-bit RAW files. I suspect that Mark is right, and the ADC is actually only 14-bits.

 

Regarding timing generation, it is possible that the ADC/AFE device could generate the timing - many of the Analog Devices AD99xx AFE parts have integrated timing generators.

 

Mark, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to desolder the CCD either... they are notoriously static-sensitive, and I doubt you can get a replacement sensor at a reasonable price!

 

p.s. anyone know what happened to Huw Finney and his DIY digital Leica M2? (Leica and Rangefinders Forum: M2aD Project, A bit of premature fantasy. - photo.net and google for the other threads describing it)

[marknorton]

Mark, could you post the steps to do this, as well as the tools needed? I am considering giving it a shot, and would like to evaluate it before trying.

 

Carsten, I'll post a separate thread...

[jolsen]

Hello Mark,

 

I suppose you haven't taken apart a R8 also?

Would like to take the top cover off mine, but can't find any instructions any place...

[J_Brittenson]

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Sandy, you're probably right, but the 997x series specifically don't seem to have anything that is 16-bits and fast enough. Do you know of other manufacturers that make CCD-specific ADC/AFE devices?

Burr-Brown, now part of TI.

CCD Imaging Analog Front Ends Product Home from Texas Instruments

[simon_hughes]

Mark,

 

Can you comment on how well the LCD cover is stuck on? In taking off the broken Giottos screen cover (cracked on both my M8 bodies), I was heating them with a hair dryer (as per the Giottos instructions) and on one body, the actual LCD cover came off with it. I stuck it back down again but I worry if it will be prone to coming off now. What do you recommend for sticking the cover back on?

 

Cheers,

 

Simon

[Daniel Ortego]

Mark,

Unquestionably, the most comprehensive illustration I’ve seen of the Leica M8. Your expertise and technical skills are quite impressive and I have learned a lot. I can’t believe that I was actually worried about having my new M8 resurfaced with a custom skin. You make that process seem like child’s play. In any event, I have bookmarked this thread in my M8 Bible folder. Thank you for sharing this information and for all the time you took in providing such detail.

Regards,

[marknorton]

Can you comment on how well the LCD cover is stuck on? In taking off the broken Giottos screen cover (cracked on both my M8 bodies), I was heating them with a hair dryer (as per the Giottos instructions) and on one body, the actual LCD cover came off with it. I stuck it back down again but I worry if it will be prone to coming off now. What do you recommend for sticking the cover back on?

 

Simon, I think that's actually good news because it suggests the LCD cover can be replaced by heating it and attaching a suction cup to pull it off. Previously, I'd been concerned that the camera would have to be dismantled to be able to push it out from behind which would be involved and therefore expensive.

 

Whether Leica could ever be persuaded to provide replacements for users to replace their own rather than send the camera in for service is another matter. I expect it's a specialised adhesive coated to the edge of the glass and possibly cured using UV light.

 

What I don't know is whether the adhesive is reusable once heated, so it may no longer work. The question is what to replace it with? I think extreme care is needed because something like "superglue" can get everywhere, especially when you press the glass into place and of course it will then become very difficult to remove. Other glues are not transparent so will be clearly visible through the glass.

 

I think you need to talk to Leica to see if the glass is, as IBM used to say, "field replaceable".

[marknorton]

I can’t believe that I was actually worried about having my new M8 resurfaced with a custom skin.

 

Thank you Daniel. I'm trying to persuade cameraleather.com to sell me a cover for the M8 - and hand-grip - but they are being a bit reticent even though they are getting lots of enquiries. They're worried about people using paint stripper to remove adhesive and drowning the camera and, until I showed them, they were worried about flex prints being stuck to the inside of the leatherette which might be torn on removing it.

 

Recovering the camera is not for everyone, many will pooh-pooh the idea but I don't think the standard covering it that great and I'm interested to try it and document the process here.

 

I think replacing the cover will be rather easier than on film Ms with the fiddly battery cover, the rewind lever and rear flap. The only thing which needs to come off is the preview selection lever and that just needs a flex-clamp to remove. The adhesive on the back of the leatherette is very tacky and when I dismantled my camera, I had to pick off some detritus whch had collected. The adhesive stayed on the leatherette though and little cleaning of the body would be required.

[wlaidlaw]

Simon, I think that's actually good news because it suggests the LCD cover can be replaced by heating it and attaching a suction cup to pull it off. Previously, I'd been concerned that the camera would have to be dismantled to be able to push it out from behind which would be involved and therefore expensive.

 

Whether Leica could ever be persuaded to provide replacements for users to replace their own rather than send the camera in for service is another matter. I expect it's a specialised adhesive coated to the edge of the glass and possibly cured using UV light.

 

What I don't know is whether the adhesive is reusable once heated, so it may no longer work. The question is what to replace it with? I think extreme care is needed because something like "superglue" can get everywhere, especially when you press the glass into place and of course it will then become very difficult to remove. Other glues are not transparent so will be clearly visible through the glass.

 

I think you need to talk to Leica to see if the glass is, as IBM used to say, "field replaceable".

 

As you say Mark - sounds like good news. I think given this, I am going to peel my hi-tec protector off today. The first hi-tec I had was very good other than I managed to get a speck of dust underneath when fitting. The second one has never settled down to become truly transparent. As my M8 is going back to Solms at the end of November anyway to get all its electronic niggles looked at, if my LCD cover gets scratched on my trip to South Africa, it is good to know that it is fairly easily replaced. I suspect you might be right about UV setting glue. Leica like this stuff and now use it to bond glass elements together in their lenses. Malcolm Taylor tells me it is a pig to get apart compared with the old Canada balsam.

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Just a quick further thought - if it is UV setting glue and Leica are prepared to supply them, your local friendly dentist should be able to help you, assuming you are on good terms with him/her. They have an intense UV light tool, which they use for setting modern tooth filling materials.

 

Wilson

[marknorton]

... your local friendly dentist should be able to help you...

 

Jaap, a new line of business for you...

[carstenw]

Mark, I have tried to catch your attention about this on a couple of occasions, but we were in different threads... I have a 50 DR Cron which I would love to use (in the far range) on the M8. It doesn't fit, since the plastic cowling on the inside of the mount is too narrow, unlike, for example, the M6. Do you know if it would be possibly to take a little off it without going through?

[marknorton]

Carsten, the lens throat moulding is integrated with half of the battery housing as this (not very good picture) shows. It's also coated with an anti-reflective black flocking on the part that becomes the lens throat, so I would be concerned about disturbing that. The plastic is quite thin as well, so I expect any attempt to remove material is going to end in disaster!

 

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For orientation, if you remove the battery from the camera, you can see the bottom shape with the two screws attaching it to the front casting. To the right is the lens throat and here you can see the cut out which allows access to the rangefinder adjustment through the bottom of the camera.

[Guest]

Hello Mark and thank you for a facinating thread.I find it amazing that considering the relative small numbers of M8 cameras that have been made there are so few problems.LOL

Brian

[Daniel Ortego]

Thank you Daniel. I'm trying to persuade cameraleather.com to sell me a cover for the M8 - and hand-grip - but they are being a bit reticent even though they are getting lots of enquiries. They're worried about people using paint stripper to remove adhesive and drowning the camera and, until I showed them, they were worried about flex prints being stuck to the inside of the leatherette which might be torn on removing it....

 

Actually, I received a response from Cameraleather and they do M8's although they don’t sell kits for user installations. Not sure why some would disagree with the process, unless they feel it may affect resale value. Oh well, being different is part of my identity.

Regards,

[Kasimir]

These pictures are pure porn.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[diogenis]

As I did a fast search for sensor cleaning techniques, I bumped into that thread and thought it would be nice to revive it... Amazing work Mark...

Also real nice to see the camera is very modularized, made with discrete components. Easy to service or upgrade. Now who's gonna dissect a DS1 III