iedei Posted March 25, 2013 Share #61 Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps, given the success of the Monochrom experiment they can get a better return on modified M9 designs by building the Monochrom camera and charging the premium. Nick good point. hopefully they reduce the price of the Monochrom too! (wishful thinking) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Hi iedei, Take a look here Leica M-E discontinued ?!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bybrett Posted March 25, 2013 Share #62 Posted March 25, 2013 R. G. Lewis - Your Leica Shop - Home page M-E + lens = free 8x20 bins Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 25, 2013 Share #63 Posted March 25, 2013 So it would be an artifically crippled camera that costs the same as the more capable model. Not likely to happen I would say (hopefully). Perhaps I need to remind you about Leica pricing. This camera, if priced like the M, would cost exactly the same as the former M9 when new. And, according to you, it would be 'artificially crippled' by improving on the M9 with weather sealing, quieter shutter, faster processing and longer battery life, etc., etc. Heck, given Leica's pricing history, they could take the letter 'M' off the front, and charge an extra $1,000. I happen to be a potential M buyer (after making my own print tests). But, if you've been reading anything on this site over the last year, you know that there have been a bunch of folks who just wanted a better M9, not one buttressed with video, EVF,etc. I'm happy to avoid those features if I don't want them, but do you really think there aren't others who will never buy the camera because of them? One person's 'crippled' camera is another's 'minimalist' camera. I guess by your standard that the MM is 'severely crippled'. Oh, and it costs more than the one I'm discussing. I can think of lots of reasons why it will never be built. But that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a willing customer base. Jeff 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlynn Posted March 25, 2013 Share #64 Posted March 25, 2013 Just to chip in my two cents, though im rather surprised no one has yet made this speculation, Leica's CCD inventory is running out and Kodak is simply not manufacturing any additional CCDs for Leica to continue its ME line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted March 25, 2013 Share #65 Posted March 25, 2013 Just to chip in my two cents, though im rather surprised no one has yet made this speculation, Leica's CCD inventory is running out and Kodak is simply not manufacturing any additional CCDs for Leica to continue its ME line. Truesense is the company which makes the current CCD sensors: who is Truesense? it's the sensor division, amongst other things, which split off from Kodak and was renamed. They, however, are still manufacturing sensors. Kodak, on the other hand, as a named entity; is not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted March 25, 2013 Share #66 Posted March 25, 2013 I hope and expect they have reviewed the user base of FF CCD sensors, assessed the current problems/returns and trends, played with their spreasdsheets, used acturarial support and have a pile of sensors to stop the very loyal M9 user base fretting about obsolescnece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 25, 2013 Share #67 Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica certainly don't seem to stockpile the sensors (at least not very high) because they do run out of them. My cracked sensor replacement was delayed around a month awaiting new stock of replacement sensors. It was finally repaired about a week and a half ago. IMO there is no reason to be particularly concerned, even if the M-E is indeed discontinued. Leica must be confident of being able to access spare sensors going forward because they have publicly (in this forum) stated that they intend supporting the M9 for around 10 years. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted March 25, 2013 Share #68 Posted March 25, 2013 Anyway, IF Leica have discontinued the M-E, why are they afraid to say so? Osborne Syndrome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted March 25, 2013 Share #69 Posted March 25, 2013 I hope and expect they have reviewed the user base of FF CCD sensors, assessed the current problems/returns and trends, played with their spreasdsheets, used acturarial support and have a pile of sensors to stop the very loyal M9 user base fretting about obsolescnece. Just curious why are so many of you worried about this? Say Leica in 10 years runs out or refuses to buy/replace any broken sensors. There's going to be an M9 for sale barely used for about $1000 or less I can guarantee that. May folks hardly use these cameras or baby them like no other. I've seen beautiful M8s and M8.2s that look like they have never been out of the cabinet being sold for $1500 and they are just 6 years old now. Here's what I'd suggest: If in 10 years your sensor breaks get another used one. You may be emotionally attached to your camera but I'm sure the grieving process will soon be over with your "new" camera. It will probably be in better shape than the one you broke, and cheaper than getting your old one repaired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 25, 2013 Share #70 Posted March 25, 2013 Just curious why are so many of you worried about this? I think they are worried for just the reason you state. If the cameras are prone to a catastrophic failure and it is known that there is no repair available, used prices will plummet. For everyone that owns a M9 that will want to eventually sell their camera to help finance an upgrade, this may result in several thousands of dollars lost on the resale. That is certainly something to be concerned about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted March 25, 2013 Share #71 Posted March 25, 2013 Perhaps I need to remind you about Leica pricing. This camera, if priced like the M, would cost exactly the same as the former M9 when new. And, according to you, it would be 'artificially crippled' by improving on the M9 with weather sealing, quieter shutter, faster processing and longer battery life, etc., etc. ‘Artificially crippled’ is the technical term describing a camera where everything required to implement some feature exists, but is disabled. Vendors charging the same for a crippled camera or indeed any vendors selling cameras artificially crippled in this way are usually facing angry customers and bad press. Having said that, I cannot rule out that some Leica customers are conditioned differently and would actually applaud the vendor disabling some features while charging the same as for a camera offering those features. Those of a cynical bent might argue that they deserved it, but not me. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 25, 2013 Share #72 Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) ‘Artificially crippled’ is the technical term describing a camera where everything required to implement some feature exists, but is disabled. I think Jeff knows full well what you meant by "artificially crippled". No need to be quite so patronising. I cannot rule out that some Leica customers are conditioned differently and would actually applaud the vendor disabling some features while charging the same as for a camera offering those features. It's a hackneyed expression but sometimes less really is more. If you don't understand that, don't worry about it. Edited March 25, 2013 by wattsy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 25, 2013 Share #73 Posted March 25, 2013 Just to chip in my two cents, though im rather surprised no one has yet made this speculation, Leica's CCD inventory is running out and Kodak is simply not manufacturing any additional CCDs for Leica to continue its ME line. This thought is backed up by the length of wait people are being quoted for sensor replacements on M9's. I think the last quote was 2 to 3 months. It would all depend on how keen Truesense are to keep making batches and how much profit they make on them. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 25, 2013 Share #74 Posted March 25, 2013 ‘Artificially crippled’ is the technical term describing a camera where everything required to implement some feature exists, but is disabled. Vendors charging the same for a crippled camera or indeed any vendors selling cameras artificially crippled in this way are usually facing angry customers and bad press. [...] Agreed, and should Leica disable features, they had best do it at the hardware rather than the firmware level, otherwise they might find that enterprising hackers will liberate the crippled camera as they did to the Panasonic GH1 and GF1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted March 25, 2013 Share #75 Posted March 25, 2013 Agreed, and should Leica disable features, they had best do it at the hardware rather than the firmware level, otherwise they might find that enterprising hackers will liberate the crippled camera as they did to the Panasonic GH1 and GF1. The same happened to Canon when they disabled features fully implemented in the EOS 300D. Canon cameras are simple to hack so it was easy to re-instate those features. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 25, 2013 Share #76 Posted March 25, 2013 ‘Artificially crippled’ is the technical term describing a camera where everything required to implement some feature exists, but is disabled. Hard to use an EVF if the port is removed. I never said that features merely be disabled. And before you list the 10 reasons why this wouldn't make sense technically or economically, just know that those are included under my list of reasons why I said it likely wouldn't happen. My only point was that some folks would like an M9 'plus' or an M(240) 'minus', however configured. Period. Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 25, 2013 Share #77 Posted March 25, 2013 My father once told the Honda dealer that he only needed an AM monaural radio and he insisted that he didn't want to pay extra for a car that had an AM/FM stereo radio. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 25, 2013 Share #78 Posted March 25, 2013 My father once told the Honda dealer that he only needed an AM monaural radio and he insisted that he didn't want to pay extra for a car that had an AM/FM stereo radio. Try to get a car now that has just an am/fm radio. Try to get one without air conditioning (at least in the US). Try to get one with window cranks. Maybe there should be a separate section in Barnacks Bar called "Luddites Bar" where people can wring their hands ad nauseum about all the modern things they don't like and recall happy memories of the good old days. Not limited to cameras of course. It is a state of mind that cannot deal with change. Some of us can remember when all cameras were manual. I do. But I don't pine for those days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted March 25, 2013 Share #79 Posted March 25, 2013 Some of us can remember when all cameras were manual. I do. But I don't pine for those days. I can remember as well. My M9 is as close as I want to get to the "good old days." Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted March 25, 2013 Share #80 Posted March 25, 2013 The ways of the Leica company are sometimes surprising indeed. And with their parts management so far one can never exclude that a vital component has suddenly become unavailable to them. Based on that, it is not impossible that they might have decided at a quite surprising point in time to discontinue the M-E. But otherwise, I cannot see any logic in presenting the M-E together with the M and then not running it at least for a year. Or even more likely, until they have something else to sell instead of the M-E. With the M-E, Leica did an however small redesign of the M9, created new marketing material etc. If they only wanted to bridge the gap into early this year, they could have continued the rebates on the M9 and keeping the M9 production a bit longer. Most likely, Leica is not making many or any M-E at the moment, with everyone, who can do so, working at producing as many as possible Ms. The MM isn't exactly available in plenties either. The production of the M-E might rest, till enough dealers orders are in. And what would be the harm of announcing the discontinuation of a product? Wouldn't those, who still consider getting it rather be encouraged to get one while supply still lasts? Especially now, while people are still thinking that CCD has anything about a CMOS sensor. Unless, of course, the successor is imminent. Leica didn't announce the discontinuation of the M9 until the M was announced. But I cannot see an M-E successor that close in the future. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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