M Monochrom & Filters

[kkcsm]

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The face was lighter relative to the sky.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Ive just started using the orange /yellow filter on my Noctilux..............I defiantly get more looks with that puppy on there than without..........Red is my blue is my next color to match my shoes

Edited May 17, 2015 by NDWgolf

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[jaapv]

I am sorry but no.... A red filter lets 'reds' pass. Faces contain a lot of red. Therefore the face should have been lighter when exposed correctly with the right amount of compensation.

Eh? If you keep the exposure of the face for the same density the background gets darker -which happened here. If you keep the density of the background identical the face gets lighter, which you would like to see happening., it seems.  In fact, these are two sides of the same coin and there is no difference. Both exposures are equally correct. That is what things like centre-weighed, matrix or spot were invented for. Compensation is not exposing correctly. It is introducing a guesstimate in the hope of hitting the ballpark.

[algrove]

Ive just started using the orange /yellow filter on my Noctilux..............I defiantly get more looks with that puppy on there than without..........Red is my blue is my next color to match my shoes

Neil

That has also been my experience and for my style I usually much prefer the orange (040) over the yellow (022). Try the red one day when you see some nice puffy white clouds against a blue sky.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Neil

That has also been my experience and for my style I usually much prefer the orange (040) over the yellow (022). Try the red one day when you see some nice puffy white clouds against a blue sky.

Algrove

Heading back to Osaka tomorrow then home on Wednesday.............looking forward to sifting through the couple of hundred pictures that I have taken while here in Japan for the last week..................I shot 99.9% of my shots with the Monochrom plus the (040 filter attached) so excited to see the results.

[dj_61]

Eh? If you keep the exposure of the face for the same density the background gets darker -which happened here. If you keep the density of the background identical the face gets lighter, which you would like to see happening., it seems. In fact, these are two sides of the same coin and there is no difference. Both exposures are equally correct. That is what things like centre-weighed, matrix or spot were invented for. Compensation is not exposing correctly. It is introducing a guesstimate in the hope of hitting the ballpark.

I give up and end this discussion with some suggested reading: Ansel's The negative.

[Jeff S]

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I give up and end this discussion with some suggested reading: Ansel's The negative.

...Where I'm sure he notes that any blue shadows cast by the sky (as possible on the face) will be darkened by a red filter.

 

The exposure on the face may, however, also be playing a part here as he admittedly didn't attempt to do a very controlled test.

 

Jeff

Edited May 18, 2015 by Jeff S

[pop]

I am sorry but no.... A red filter lets 'reds' pass. Faces contain a lot of red. Therefore the face should have been lighter when exposed correctly with the right amount of compensation.

 

 

I give up and end this discussion with some suggested reading: Ansel's The negative.

Right; Adams says right early in The Negative that you choose the exposure to match your rendering intent; hence, you are indeed exposing "correctly" and "with the right amount of compensation" when the face has the wanted zone in the print; you are not exposing correctly when it has not. There is no canonical "correct" exposure.

[Lenshacker]

This was the first picture that I took with the M Monochrom other than to test that it actually worked out of the box.

 

5cm f1.5 Zeiss Sonnar, 1945, wide-open with a red filter. +1/3ev exposure compensation. (This lens was made in May 1945, but was not working. I ended up resetting the glass into a new fixture)

 

L1000008 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I found early on that the meter and CCD "disagree" about exposure with a red filter. 

 

+1ev on the meter, but I had on Manual exposure- and don't always center the exposure LED's. Just like using an F2AS. Just seemed that the background was going to throw things. These are straight exports to Jpeg with LR3.6, which I had from the M9.

 

L1000047 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Teen-aged daughters and Red filters- helps with complexion. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Lenshacker

[IkarusJohn]

Neil

That has also been my experience and for my style I usually much prefer the orange (040) over the yellow (022). Try the red one day when you see some nice puffy white clouds against a blue sky.

 

Just be careful when using the red filter that you focus bracket.  The red wavelength can result in the focus shifting (i.e., the plain of best focus not aligning with the sensor - Digilloyd wrote about this on his website when the Monochrom was first released, and Olaf posted some helpful observations here on the topic).

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Hay was out shooting street photography this morning in the pissing rain and that Orange filter on my 90 APO made them pop...... will post up some pictures when I can get back on my computer

[jpattison]

Here's one in Scarborough with a Yellow AND the polarizing filter !

 

MM 35'lux ASPH

 

John

 

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[Lenshacker]

Just be careful when using the red filter that you focus bracket.  The red wavelength can result in the focus shifting (i.e., the plain of best focus not aligning with the sensor - Digilloyd wrote about this on his website when the Monochrom was first released, and Olaf posted some helpful observations here on the topic).

This is true especially in the case of a Sonnar formula lens, but sometimes works to an advantage. If the F1.5 Sonnar was optimized to provide best focus at ~F2, then using the Red filter brings it to best focus at F1.5. I believe it is just doing away with most of the Chromatic Aberration that spreads focus across a range. Without the filter my lens provided best focus at ~F2.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Lenshacker

[dante]

They are probably identical glass. In general Leica has  had their filters made from a midrange Schott (AKA B&W) glass, except for their UV/IR filters, that are said to be made by Marumi.

If you want nano-coated filters you must go with B&W. Heliopan is worth looking at as well.

 

I wouldn't overspend on filters by buying either until you can test the full range of tonal response. I have already heard from my dealer that yellow has a stronger effect on the new MM than it does on film.

 

B+W has dropped all but 022 (Yellow 12), 040 (Orange 56), and 090 (Red) as stock items. Not only does this cut out green, it also has some pretty big jumps between cuts. In the experimental stage, consider a Hoya G, Heliopan Yellow 15, Tiffen Yellow 15, or Vivitar "Deep Yellow" - all of these are still available new (or NOS) and do less violence to shadows than a 560nm orange orange.

 

Dante

[Lenshacker]

I use vintage single-coated Nikkor filters, Y44, Y48, Y52, O56, R60. Equivalent of light yellow, medium yellow, dark yellow, orange, red. The filters and lenses out-resolve the M Monochrom sensor, so I never worried about using "just" single-coated optics. As these filters start at 1stop, never worried about the loss in light between a single-coated and nano-coated optic.

[jaapv]

I use vintage single-coated Nikkor filters, Y44, Y48, Y52, O56, R60. Equivalent of light yellow, medium yellow, dark yellow, orange, red. The filters and lenses out-resolve the M Monochrom sensor, so I never worried about using "just" single-coated optics. As these filters start at 1stop, never worried about the loss in light between a single-coated and nano-coated optic.

I don't quite see what single coating has to do with resolution - coating is meant to cut out flare and reflections - so use the best coatings available regardless of the lens, especially with older lenses which are sometimes not as flare-resistant as newer ones.

[dj_61]

...Where I'm sure he notes that any blue shadows cast by the sky (as possible on the face) will be darkened by a red filter.

 

The exposure on the face may, however, also be playing a part here as he admittedly didn't attempt to do a very controlled test.

 

Jeff

Very true. It was an overcast day and you do not have to expect much effect of any filter under such conditions. But simply look at the whites in the eye in the portrait with the red filter: underexposed at least by two stops.

[Lenshacker]

I don't quite see what single coating has to do with resolution - coating is meant to cut out flare and reflections - so use the best coatings available regardless of the lens, especially with older lenses which are sometimes not as flare-resistant as newer ones.

The "T" in "Sonnar T" was for Transmission. Coatings were used to increase transmission of light through the lens and reduce loss. Went from ~5% per surface to ~1%. Multicoatings get you to ~0.3%.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Lenshacker

[Lenshacker]

To late to edit the above- the reference about resolution, simply that the 50+ year old filters and lenses are well matched with the M9 and M Monochrom  cameras in terms of resolution.  The 50 year old single-coated filters get used interchangeably with my new B+W, Schneider, Heliopan, and Leica filters. 

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[sm23221]

I find yellow and orange filters work well.  I've had terrible results with medium to deep red filters even with the APO Summicron Asph.  There's a substantial focus shift that's hard to nail when shooting wide open.