Movie Mode and the M10

[stunsworth]

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Alan, phones sell by the million and have huge R&D budgets. Leica's sell by the thousand and have a much smaller amount on R&D. If on the other hand you know of a phone that takes 'better' photographs than an M8/9 feel free to let us know.

 

Less expensive cameras have had more processing grunt than an M for over 40+ years. Oddly enough some of us still preferred to use Leica's.

[AlanG]

Alan, phones sell by the million and have huge R&D budgets. Leica's sell by the thousand and have a much smaller amount on R&D. If on the other hand you know of a phone that takes 'better' photographs than an M8/9 feel free to let us know.

 

Less expensive cameras have had more processing grunt than an M for over 40+ years. Oddly enough some of us still preferred to use Leica's.

 

I know this, so you are paying a lot more for much much less technology in an M9 simply for overall improvement in image quality but a lower level of performance and features. I don't see why some of the economies of scale in the electronic industry can't be incorporated into the electronics of the M9 as Leica buys off the shelf components and doesn't develop the electronics in house. Just as HTC uses chips, screens, and other components from Qualcomm, TI, Samsung, or wherever.

 

But this comparison does illustrate the huge difference in pricing between consumer electronics and a Leica. As the image quality improves and features increase in the consumer electronics, it will further marginalize the uses for a Leica if the technology in the Leica remains stagnant.

 

As for "better photographs" the moving photographs in a cell phone are far better than the non-existent ones from an M9. As is the audio and GPS tagging.

 

The Leica viewfinder has been around for ages so whatever R&D costs involved were captured long ago. By contrast Fuji has placed a pretty nice zoom viewfinder (with adjustable diopter) in the $600 X10 camera, and Leica doesn't even have a zoom viewfinder or adjustable diopter in the M9. I guess when your viewfinder is "perfect," there is no reason to try to improve it.

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[wda]

Many moons ago I spent hours shooting, editing, cutting, reassembling and projecting cine films. It was great fun and generally appreciated BUT, very time consuming. Because of that I let digital video pass me by. Now I have reached the stage when my available time is devoted to perfecting and enjoying my Leica digital still images. Digital video sounds equally challenging and I doubt that many double-shooters will perfect both media forms. So I am likely to 'pass' on a digital Leica M10. Count me out in this ballot.

[pico]

RED Epic is not a high end camera, it's a budget choice as well. F35 is the industry standard. [...]

 

Here is an ambitious F35 setup. Just what I want to take to Grandma's 90th birthday.

[k-hawinkler]

I'm sure Grandma would be impressed! :D

I certainly am.

 

K-H.

[AlanG]

Here is an ambitious F35 setup. Just what I want to take to Grandma's 90th birthday.

 

And you could just use your cell phone instead of your Leica to shoot still photos at Grandma's 90th birthday.

 

By the way Pico, how old was grandma when she gave birth to your mother?

[stunsworth]

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By contrast Fuji has placed a pretty nice zoom viewfinder (with adjustable diopter) in the $600 X10 camera, and Leica doesn't even have a zoom viewfinder or adjustable diopter in the M9. I guess when your viewfinder is "perfect," there is no reason to try to improve it.

 

Is there room in the viewfinder for a 3x optical magnification that wouldn't compromise the quality of the viewed image?

 

Also remember that the Fuji was a system designed from scratch. The Leica has to handle the situation where uncoded lenses of say 35mm and 135mm would appear as being identical as far as the cameras concerned.

[stunsworth]

As for "better photographs" the moving photographs in a cell phone are far better than the non-existent ones from an M9

 

Not sure what the point is you're making as the same could be said of any camera, not just an M9.

[ThousandWords]

An M10 that shoots video. Why stop there? Who not add email, internet, and texting capabilities and call it the mPhone?!

 

Leica got it right the first time with their digital M-series, keeping the camera simple and functional to the highest degree.

 

My M10 will have better low light capability, a high-res sapphire LCD display, and a couple more pixels to throw around (optional, I'm happy with the 18mp I have now with my M9.)

 

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Edited November 27, 2011 by ThousandWords
left something out.

[kokoshawnuff]

Video without audio seems the only viable option on an M10 to avoid serious design and size changes, but video results on par with the 5d or 7d while using Leica glass can only come from the (so far) nonexistent full-frame, digital Leica R10...a wonderful camera the R10 will be with it's new line of lenses...

[k-hawinkler]

An M10 that shoots video. Why stop there? Who not add email, internet, and texting capabilities and call it the mPhone?!

 

Leica got it right the first time with their digital M-series, keeping the camera simple and functional to the highest degree.

 

My M10 will have better low light capability, a high-res sapphire LCD display, and a couple more pixels to throw around (optional, I'm happy with the 18mp I have now with my M9.)

 

It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

 

Great thought! However, Leica doesn't have the know-how or financial resources!

However, the M10 should wirelessly communicate with my iPhone.

That would be an unbeatable combination!

 

K-H.

[Sp12]

There's very serious talk from many camera manufacturers about integrating further with cellular devices as processing power scales forward. The R&D costs are negligible and I would never use those features, so I don't see why not.

 

I mean, in 10 years I have serious doubts about my GPS, fridge, and phone not talking. Or the GPS even existing separate from my phone.

 

Let me know if I'm wrong:

 

1. We've concluded there are very few technical or size limitations on Leica including high-quality video and live view into an M10 assuming they go with CMOS and a better electronics partner. Corallory: No one has presented a strong argument against movie mode on any grounds except tradition/philosophy.

2. Some people feel video is against the "M Philosophy"

3. Some people feel the "M Philosophy" doesn't even apply to the digital Ms since they're so off base already.

4. The M9 is behind the curve when it comes to features and speed. The jury is out an whether the "Leica man" could care less or effectively use any of these features (more FPS, live view for precise landscape focusing/framing and macro/telephoto lenses, IBIS, GPS, video, slew of other electronic improvements).

[AlanG]

Great thought! However, Leica doesn't have the know-how or financial resources!

However, the M10 should wirelessly communicate with my iPhone.

That would be an unbeatable combination!

 

K-H.

 

I agree and I think the idea of having to take a card out of a camera, load images into a computer and then transmit those files from a computer to an on-line site will seem pretty primitive before long when compared to how cell phones work with images today.

 

By the way, I recently did scouting shots of a building using my cell phone. I have software in the phone that lets me do perspective control on the cell phone images. I sent them to an ad agency for them to give guidance on how I was to do the actual dusk images - with added lighting. They said my scouting shots looked very good to them.

[k-hawinkler]

Alan,

 

That sounds great! Which software did you use for the perspective control?

 

K-H.

[Rick]

My iPhone 4s was designed to have a camera that was not just an add on. Jobs wanted to harness the amazing processor that is in it to move phone photography quality up. He decided to use the main CPU to do a lot more image processing than ever before. You can read about it elsewhere. The chip in the new iPhone is capable of amazing processor power and image processing. By the way, still picture (digital) is about image processing. It isn't a dirty word. It is obviously how we get information off the chip and into a form we can see. This is the chip in the iPhone. NVIDIA Tegra 2 I hope Leica uses something like this or something even more specifically designed for image processing with a lot of power. By the way, the power consumption of this chip is very low.

 

If, Leica can put together something like this in the new M10, the video quality should be fantastic. No reason that it can't rival the 5DII. And, the lenses should add even more quality to distance the image from the 5DII.

 

I mean really, Leica glass to great CMOS FF chip to a processing chip like the 1 GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 processor and supporting architecture and the video would be gorgeous. And, it is all going to be there anyway if it is CMOS, so why not have it?

 

I think the statement by Herr K. has pretty much made this a moot argument. It sounds like Leica is going with the future which he said is CMOS. That means live view and that is video.

[wattsy]

I wanted to do a series of interviews with my grandma before she died. ...

I had sliders, a crane and of course a proper external audio recording system. And a second camera system to provide a different angle in order to facilitate cuts.

 

Interesting that you would go to this length to video your grandmother. Was this a personal project or something you were being paid to do?

[Sp12]

I think the statement by Herr K. has pretty much made this a moot argument. It sounds like Leica is going with the future which he said is CMOS. That means live view and that is video.

 

What statement?

[Dirk Mandeville]

Corallory: No one has presented a strong argument against movie mode on any grounds except tradition/philosophy.

 

Actually, it is quite the opposite. No one has presented a strong argument for including movie mode on any grounds except "they can do it and everyone else is doing it and I want it."

 

The strongest argument against movie mode is presented by Leica themselves:

 

50 years of M evolution has concentrated on development, rather than change for its own sake.So M's are not burdened with over-complication. There are no gadgets. No unnecessary electronic trickery. Nothing to confound the act of photography.

 

For fifty years, the M has been a quality stills camera. And there is no overwhelming need to divert resources to add video capture abilities to it now, just because it is possible to do so. Movie mode would do nothing to advance its abilities as an instrument of photography, which is what the M has always been about. It would only serve to complicate the camera considerably and divert substantial resources toward developing a complicated functionality that does nothing to support its original and overriding purpose: still photography.

[Rick]

What statement?

 

Mr. Stefan Daniel: "Offering additional functions such as video and live view would extend the usability of the M camera significantly. CMOS is a prerequisite for it, therefore it will be the technology of the future."

 

Sorry it was Stefan Daniel. I for some reason get his name mixed up with Kaufman. But anyway, kind of hard to misinterpret this.

Edited November 27, 2011 by RickLeica

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Please help me understand the issue.

 

Let's assume for argument's sake there was a digital Leica M camera which was in most respects just the same as the M9, with the only difference that you could record movies with it. Of course, this would require some technical changes such as another sensor.

 

In what particular way would the resulting device be better than any other movie recording device? Would it even be as good as other devices which have been on the market for some time which have been designed for the taking of movies?

 

The form factor, the very shape as well as some other particulars of the M camera would make it somewhat awkward for movie taking, I'd think.