Challenges for new Leica CEO

[johnastovall]

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Why no "Viso" for R lenses.

 

Leica rangefinder flange to film = 27.80mm

 

Leicaflex and R bodies flange to film = 47.00mm

 

You won't get a mirror box in 19.20mm.

[Guest BigSplash]

Why no "Viso" for R lenses.

 

Leica rangefinder flange to film = 27.80mm

 

Leicaflex and R bodies flange to film = 47.00mm

 

You won't get a mirror box in 19.20mm.

 

This is true for lenses below say 200mm (maybe less) It is not true for Telyt 280, 400, 560 which actually were made historcally with two register lengths .

 

I started another thread in M Forum ...M8/9 as a true system camera ...the thoughts of myself and others (please ignore the live acrimony that some wish to introduce) gives agood insight I believe as to what is possible.

 

I welcome your thoughts!

 

The more i look at it and address the issues the more sense it makes.

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[Guest BigSplash]

Yes indeed why treating a rangefinder like a DSLR? The next Leica reflex will do that very well hopefully.

 

The answer is COST for buying an M system and then buying a completely separate DSLR system again. A pro can afford to do this but for the rest of us?

[stunsworth]

The answer is COST for buying an M system and then buying a completely separate DSLR system again. A pro can afford to do this but for the rest of us?

 

But in addition to the new improved Visioflex a user would also need to buy a new set of lenses to use with it since the M ones wouldn't work.

[lct]

But in addition to the new improved Visioflex a user would also need to buy a new set of lenses to use with it since the M ones wouldn't work.

So obvious. I dared to object this as well. Not sure if Frank responded though.

[bill]

"An inconvenient truth", methinks

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[lct]

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Hardly cheap, hardly compact either.

Here compared to the 5D, the R10 should be smaller.

 

[lct]

The R10 should be closer sizewise to that (R4s).

 

[Guest Posto 6]

Hopefully, it will also be brass rather than zinc- I had to get rid of an R4 in the mid-80's that got a bad case of the 'pox while in Rio de Janeiro due to the salty air and humid atmosphere!

 

Brass is also far more in the Leica spirit...

[andybarton]

There isn't going to be an R10

 

Read the thread which is a sticky in the Digital section of the forum. From the horse's mouth this evening.

[NZDavid]

That thread is where the action is; I think this one has done its dash! Thanks, Andy.

[adan]

Frank: The breaking news from the visit with Leica has mooted a lot of the points one way or the other - but I will say, for myself, that you may not have been that far off the mark after all.

 

Leica has now suggested themselves (but then, they have suggested many things in the past) that an EVF/live view camera may end up being the new "non-R" solution for R (and presumably thus also Viso) lenses.

 

It is certainly mechanically simpler than a classic mirrored Viso-type device.

 

A lot of water still to flow under this bridge before we really know what the future holds, but you might check out some of the news threads that AndyB has put up...

[lct]

...It is certainly mechanically simpler than a classic mirrored Viso-type device...

Sure if it is a sort of full frame G1 as we can suspect. Not sure if Frank will like to view the world on a TV set though.

[kenneth]

I am sadenned and surprised by the negative comments above to my original mail. I did NOT expect this from people who I guess are intersted in Leicas future and maybe wish to influence it.

 

Who said anything about being interested in Leica's future? I own a Leica M system consisting of 2 bodies and 2 lenses, 3, if you include a 75mm Voigtlander with an M fitting so Leica's future is really no concern of mine and I can't for the life of me see where this thread is going but hay ho

[AlanG]

How can the ideal situations in which to use an M be getting smaller? These situations will always be there, and the M will always be ideal for shooting them.

 

Not if other cameras do those things better. Such as work faster, more quietly, or better in low light. And if other cameras are smaller and lighter weight and better sealed against the elements, are more rugged and more reliable, they will be better for use in photojournalism and documentation. And if they are more versatile, that will be a bonus.

Edited June 14, 2009 by AlanG

[Guest BigSplash]

http://tinyurl.com/kvzbhh' alt='kvzbhh'>

 

I clearly am missing something when I look at these pictures of an R4 and then subsequently against a Canon 5D with a M8 plus the clunky 40 year old design Viso!

 

First the Viso would not allow the 35mm lens to focus to infinity would it?

 

Second why would one use a 35mm on a viso and then onto a M8...the job would be done much better directly using the M8 wouldn't it? Surely noone would suggest using a wide angle to 70 - 90mm on a Viso or even an DSLR if one had an M8 would they?

 

Third one may wish to look at the comparison photo and use some imagination that would suggest that the Viso prism unit could TODAY be made much smaller and neater along the lines of R4 or Canon 5D...and then electronics could be fitted at the same time with no impact on the overall size.

 

Fourth let's see a photo of a R9 with its digital module and then lets discuss size, ease of handling etc.

 

Personally it is the case that a friend of mine gave up his R9 analogue becaue of the size, weight and handling and I decided against buying one for this very reason. Add the digital module and it is even bigger!

 

Fifth let's see a fair comparison of the Viso as it is likely to be used. For example

> R4 with a 400mm and the Viso with the same lens

> R4 with bellows unit and a 65mm lens for example ......

 

The percentage difference in these cases are likely to be small and maybe none existant.

 

The above are facts even if the truth is uncomfortable for some!

[Guest BigSplash]

But in addition to the new improved Visioflex a user would also need to buy a new set of lenses to use with it since the M ones wouldn't work.

 

Simply NOT true for any lens in the range "wide angle to 75 or 90mm" used at infinity.

 

NB If a person had an M8 they would not I guess dream of fitting a 50mm onto their Viso for landscape shots. The M8 is a better camera for this type of work and it is why professionals buy it I believe (plus available light photography with Noctilux I guess)

 

They would ONLY need new lenses for 200mm an above but then so would the "R" user ....in fact both types of user would use the same lenses probably albeit with different register length options.

 

They would need a bellows and a special lens for Macro work (65mm) ... True in both cases.

[stunsworth]

Frank, I meant a new set of lenses for use on the Visioflex, there are no current lenses that would work. So it someone already had a 180mm R lens they'd need to buy a new one.

[Guest BigSplash]

Frank: The breaking news from the visit with Leica has mooted a lot of the points one way or the other - but I will say, for myself, that you may not have been that far off the mark after all.

 

Leica has now suggested themselves (but then, they have suggested many things in the past) that an EVF/live view camera may end up being the new "non-R" solution for R (and presumably thus also Viso) lenses.

 

It is certainly mechanically simpler than a classic mirrored Viso-type device.

 

A lot of water still to flow under this bridge before we really know what the future holds, but you might check out some of the news threads that AndyB has put up...

 

Thanks for this feedback. Actually several people have suggested the EVF / live view and it certainly addresses the issues surrounding framing te picture.

 

I guess the bit that I do not understand is how this technology can on its own allow the user to accurately focus a Telephoto lens (560mm) or Macro via Bellows. Maybe there is some innovative way of doing this as SLR cameras use a split screen at the focus centre...I do not know.

 

Also I guess you need a way of fitting a "R" telephoto lens or a bellows unit onto the "M" body that accommodates any difference in register length for the Telephotos. My thought is that this is most elegantly done with the mirror housing unit.

 

If Life View moves in the direction of allowing video etc I guess it is an added feature that some may enjoy, but I think it moves the Leica M away from its intended use and a do epherything gadget such as the iphone. I see that as subtely different to extending the usage as a pure camera that takes still photos within a system configuration.

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[Guest BigSplash]

I am sadenned and surprised by the negative comments above to my original mail. I did NOT expect this from people who I guess are intersted in Leicas future and maybe wish to influence it.

 

Who said anything about being interested in Leica's future? I own a Leica M system consisting of 2 bodies and 2 lenses, 3, if you include a 75mm Voigtlander with an M fitting so Leica's future is really no concern of mine and I can't for the life of me see where this thread is going but hay ho

 

I suggest you go and evaluate the secondhand market value of your investment .....say £5 to £7K . If Leica went back to where it was three years ago when Hermes had a problem with the banks I was told by several dealers that my kit was soon to be worthless, and I could expect no new products from Leica.

 

Happily this did not happen, as Dr Kaufmann stepped in and injected his money. I hope Leica never return to this situation, remain healthy and protect my investment in the process!