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hassiman

The beginng of the end for Leica

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[ But here's a very recent posting from Mrs. Tina Manley, well-known and highly-respected Leica photojournalist:

 

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who believes her M8's shutter wore out after only 15,000 actuations:

 

LINK-2

 

Just a correction here, guys! That was 15,000 photos in one month in India! I've had the M8 almost two years so it has had considerably more than 15,000 actuations. I was also speaking facetiously when I said that maybe the shutter wore out. I should have added a smiley face but I was on a strange computer in India when I wrote that e-mail. I have not lost confidence in Leica or M8 and will confirm that shortly by buying my second M8.

 

Tina

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Tina, thank you for setting the record straight.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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Guest rweisz

That's the same thing that happened to my M8 week before last. One blade crunched into another one and kaput. Rough estimate, mine had about 12K shots on it total. I use mine professionally but only for certain types of shoots, otherwise I use Canon for everything else. It's on it's way to Solms, I'm not giving up on it either, sh*t happens you know. OTOH I'm not going to buy another one, I'll save the money for an M9 if and when. Meantime while my M8 is in the hospital I'll limp along with--believe it or not--my backup-backup-backup Rebel XTi and a couple of EF primes for when I need a small, amaturish-looking rig. It's 10mp, no noisier than the M8 in sound and way less noisier at high ISO, weighs less, doesn't need IR filters...hmmm, I might not miss the M8 as much as I thought. Just kidding

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From memory I think Tina had dropped the M8 onto a hard surface a couple of weeks before the shutter failed. That could have set in train events that eventually caused the shutter to fail.

 

I'm sure if I'm not correct Tina will correct me.

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You're right, Steve. I did drop the M8 onto a marble floor but when it continued to work flawlessly for thousands of exposures, I assumed no harm was done. My M6's and 7's have suffered much more abuse and kept on working, but I know electronics are more fragile. As I'm going through the photos from the M8 and the Canon 5D, I know I'll never give up on Leica!

 

Tina

Tina Manley- powered by SmugMug

Leica Traveler

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Guest WPalank
. As I'm going through the photos from the M8 and the Canon 5D, I know I'll never give up on Leica![/url]

I couldn't agree with you more Tina! Welcome back.

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Guest guy_mancuso

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Wise lady , my 5D is on the selling block as we speak. It is as boring as boring gets.

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Guest rweisz

Like a lot of pros I shoot Canon (including the 5D which is my 2nd backup after 1DS-III and 1DS-II) plus I also shoot an M8. I won't stand here and tell you I never shoot a boring photo but when I do it's 100% me and happens with the same frequency regardless of the camera. All my pro buddies seem to agree, and my M8 doesn't make my 5D photos look boring by comparison. Is there a pizzazz chip or something that's supposed to make my photos more exciting than the 5D's? If so, mine isn't working properly and I should ask Leica to replace it, since my M8 is on its way to Solms anyway for replacement of a dead shutter.

 

Cheers,

Ray

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Guest guy_mancuso

Well I'm a Pro and we have a difference of opinion. Images from the 5D are nice and I will just leave it there. I'm not getting into this battle. I have been shooting digital since the beginning and i know what i like.

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It's not the subject of the photos that changes. That's strictly up to the photographer - and I still believe it's the photographer who makes the photo, not the camera. The reason I prefer my M8 photos to the 5D's is the technical quality of the photos. The M8 photos are sharp right to the edges of the wide angle shots. The 5D, even with expensive prime L lenses, shows distortion, fringing, lack of sharpness on the edges. When I use R lenses on the 5D, it's much, much better, but still doesn't equal my M8 photos. As I'm editing in Lightroom and rating the photos, almost all of my highest rated photos are M8's. I love my fast M lenses and shoot a lot in very low light. YMMV of course!

 

Tina

Tina Manley- powered by SmugMug

Leica Traveler

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Guest guy_mancuso

Exactly Tina. i am one of the grandfathers of bolting Zeiss and Leica glass on Canon. Just not going to do that anymore. Reason I bought the DMR was i got away from that and the bonus was the DMR rocked the house in file. The M8 is right smack on it's heels and sometimes better .

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The M8 photos are sharp right to the edges of the wide angle shots... As I'm editing in Lightroom and rating the photos, almost all of my highest rated photos are M8's.

 

Not meaning to hijack the thread, and I quite understand if this isn't of any interest to users here - but on the topic of Lightroom and sharpness, I recently did an informal comparison test of RAW developers with an image shot with an R-D1s, and I found that even with all noise suppression turned-off, the Lightroom image was somewhat softer and had lost detail that other raw processors had managed to retain.

 

Is this the experience of other users of Lightroom?

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Guest rweisz

Thanks Tina, for offering your thoughts. At least you back up your feelings with specifics and point to dislikes you have for the performance of certain lenses vs making an unsupportable emotional statement like the 5D makes "boring" photos. I happen to disagree completely and my Canon primes (many of which are not even "L") do not do those horrible things to me, but maybe I just am extremely lucky and got perfect examples of lenses and a better-than-average 5D. Who knows? Wide sample variation isn't unheard of with Canon or Nikon. Also, little of what I shoot requires tack-sharp detail in the far corners for the shot to work, in fact I'd say 80-90% of the time the subject is somewhere within the confines of the Golden Mean (roughly, the AF area of a 1-series Canon if you're familiar with them) and the rest of the shot is purposely OOF. BTW I do not mean to start a Leica-vs-Canon flame war. I own the M8 and several Canon's including the 5D and 1DS-II and 1DS-III and I am also a pro with 30 years experience and use a printer who prints for some of the top names in the country and he and I both have our opinions regarding the comparisons of M8 to the top Canon's which I won't get into here because it would only stir up rancor.

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It is what the LFI LR-ACR comparison showed as well.

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Guest guy_mancuso
Thanks Tina, for offering your thoughts. At least you back up your feelings with specifics. I happen to disagree completely and my Canon primes (many of which are not even "L") do not do those horrible things to me, but maybe I just am extremely lucky and got perfect examples of lenses and a better-than-average 5D. Who knows? Wide sample variation isn't unheard of with Canon or Nikon. Also, little of what I shoot requires tack-sharp detail in the far corners for the shot to work, in fact I'd say 80-90% of the time the subject is somewhere within the confines of the Golden Mean (roughly, the AF area of a 1-series Canon if you're familiar with them) and the rest of the shot is purposely OOF.

 

This is a Leica forum not a Canon one. My opinion is all over the net on this one. I'm done the BS with the comparisions there worthless and serve no purpose except some ones ego. Not interested , been down this road to many times. Don't like my answer don't read it. Very simple

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It is what the LFI LR-ACR comparison showed as well.

 

Ah really? I must've missed that - maybe it was during the period I was being super-dismissive of everything digital.

I'll have to pull out my back-numbers.

 

But why does Lightroom decide to do this? So much sharpness is lost, and areas of detail are merged into a posterized bloc of color - and this is even when, as I said, all noise suppression is zeroed.

 

The reason I looked into it at all was when I commented on RFF that I was very pleased with the camera but a little disappointed at the soft AA-filter effect - and another user there questioned the statement. When I looked at the same images in other raw processors I was amazed to see all the detail was there!

 

Here's a small crop at 100% of one area which illustrates some of the difference (probably needs a good monitor to see all the detail - and of course a lot of the finest detail is swallowed by jpeg compression etc):

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Guest rweisz
This is a Leica forum not a Canon one. /comparisions there worthless and serve no purpose except some ones ego.

 

Agreed, but it was you who started the Leica-Canon comparing in this thread, not me. All I said was that I also shoot Canon in addition to my M8, then you said that you are selling your 5D because it's boring. If the forum rules say never to mention another brand, then fine, so be it. But if you trash Canon you have to expect a lot of people, especially other pros, to disagree with you. If you offer a thoughtful rebuttal with specific details in a polite manner as Tina did, then we all profit from the discussion even if it involves a comparison of brands. Most of us compare brands before we buy, Leica is aware of that surely. But if you do a hit-and-run and then get all steamed about it, then you're doing us all a disservice. At least that's the way I see it.

 

Cheers,

Ray

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Guest guy_mancuso

Than you see it wrong. It is of no value to discuss canon for me. I have had every lens and every body they make and i also had battles with every 5D zealot there is and no matter what evidence real or scientific you will NOT convince a 5D owner they don't have the best camera around. I'm dead serious about this, not sure why that is but it truly is amazing how narrow minded the thought process is. Generally speaking of course but it is a complete waste of energy. I have zero time for it and no desire to discuss it at any length. But if you look at my 7000 posts here, I add a ton of value to conversations and facts. So the rest of your comments are BS in my opinion. I bring the bacon every day here.

 

Ray you have to remember people do NOT have to defend there opinion, it's there's to keep or throw in the trash and you certainly can ignore it too.

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Guest Ridder Cornelius

Did I read something about Ego somewhere?

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Guest guy_mancuso

Yea you did and I know what I am talking about so there. At least i can back it up with 33 years as a Pro. End of story

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