EVF M rumoured

[3D-Kraft.com]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Does anybody think that Leica is willing to risk an M5 type of fiasco?

The switch from analog film Ms to digital was also a risk at a time when Leica already had its back against the wall. In the end, the M9 saved Leica's survival and I am sure that there were similarly skeptical voices at the time.

vor 47 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

An excerpt from this 2.5-year-old article on MacFilos, bolding is mine (link)

Hopefully they have used the 2.5 years to put some bright minds on the topic.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[evikne]

33 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

The switch from analog film Ms to digital was also a risk at a time when Leica already had its back against the wall. In the end, the M9 saved Leica's survival and I am sure that there were similarly skeptical voices at the time.

Putting a digital sensor in an analog camera body was a truly cool and brave move. But I'm very happy that they did it.

Edited February 9 by evikne

[jaapv]

In 2004 Leica was de facto bankrupt; only a cash injection by Dr Kaufmann saved the day  and enabled the M8 which  revived  the company. Not comparable with the present day situation. 

[sebben]

Some of us just want an L mount EVF camera with IBIS that is focused on photography that doesn't have the weight and bulk of an SL. The SLs are fine but not the kind of camera you just work around with on a whim.

Basically what I am asking for is Leica Q with a L mount paired with the M mount adapter. It shouldn't be rocket science nor uneconomical to create this camera. 

For me it would be the perfect companion for my Leica M10D, because if it is light and compact it can offer things that the M can't.

If Leica won't make it I guess I just need to settle for a used Leica Q2 or a used CL.

 

[M8X2]

I don‘t think that the M could survive outside of its niche. I’m not at all arguing against modernization (IBIS and Digital viewfinder, for example), but as soon as the M gets too similar to other mirrorless cameras on the market, the M is dead. It can only survive if it provides sufficiently pure RF vibes, continues to support legacy lenses, and maintains the legendary M form factor.

[davidmknoble]

Changing my post after reading the rest.

I am not against an M with an EVF.  I am against M’s going forward only with an EVF.

One thing that keeps me shooting the M again and again, is the lack of electronics in the lenses.  These are the same lenses that work with any M analog camera (which don’t need any electronics, except the M7).  The M digital cameras will have a finite shelf life where electronic repairs will become unavailable.  Yet, the M analog cameras are about 75 years old and some of the early screw mounts older - but they are still repairable and film still exists.

It is small and durable and will stand the test of time.  No other Leica product will last as long as the M.

IMHO.

 

Edited February 9 by davidmknoble
changed entire post.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thank goodness for the Monochrom. 

It may have seemed risky at the time, but it was a genuinely brilliant, insightful move, establishing a unique and durable corner in the digital camera market, perfectly aimed at one of the M's core set of users. 

One of the things about the Monochrom: while its original constituency may indeed be "aging out" (how delicately put!), there's a reasonable expectation that a replacement constituency will come along to replace them. 

There may well be youngsters coming up who will realize a Monochrom is exactly the Leica they need. And they'll be very glad it's there, for nothing else will quite do. Oh, they'll still be thawing out the last remaining rolls of Ilford while they can, maybe developing them in coffee, but after the silver-based analog materials are out of reach, the Monochroms will be there. 

It ain't nostalgia. It's a genuine regard for the received craft and art, of which they are both the beneficiaries, and the future. 

I'm pretty sure the Monochroms will be sought after and valued for many, many years to come. 

[luigi bertolotti]

Supposed (as it seems) that IBIS is out of question into a current M body, such a camera could be not so costly to design and make... the space saved by RF is, I think, sufficient to embed a EVF similar to the current external, with no other work on lenses (say, keeping the current 6 bit system) ; not costly, but I think with limited success... not the way to catch a new breed of customers... but maybe they will afford this limited risk ... prbably the CL was a more costly abandoned platform.

Edited February 9 by luigi bertolotti

[raizans]

A full frame CL would make sense if they made some compact L-mount lenses. Why don’t we start asking for that more energetically? It’ll only take a decade or so before it arrives!

Edited February 9 by raizans

[Lee S]

I thought I wanted an M with EVF but now I have more experience shooting M would it be really easier to focus via EVF?

Mounting a lens on my Sony A7III I find manual focus harder especially in dynamic situations. Viewfinder is not sharp enough to get critical focus at 1 x magnification so you zoom in and end up searching for the subject.

Appreciate EVF on my Sony is low res, are high res ones that much better aiding focusing at 1 x?

 

[gotium]

58 minutes ago, Lee S said:

I thought I wanted an M with EVF but now I have more experience shooting M would it be really easier to focus via EVF?

Mounting a lens on my Sony A7III I find manual focus harder especially in dynamic situations. Viewfinder is not sharp enough to get critical focus at 1 x magnification so you zoom in and end up searching for the subject.

Appreciate EVF on my Sony is low res, are high res ones that much better aiding focusing at 1 x?

 

There are better ways of doing EVF manual focus than what Sony does - Panasonic has a little square that zooms for focus, while the rest of the screen stays at 1:1 for composition, for example, and Nikon has focus confirmation without needing to zoom. I'm sure there's some way of making it work as well as a rangefinder - which has all sorts of limitations. 

[lct]

The M mount allows for auto zoom in EVF mode with M lenses. Should still work if the EVF-M keeps an M mount and the roller cam of the rangefinder. Same as the M11 with the Visoflex 2.

[phojomatic]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

The M mount allows for auto zoom in EVF mode with M lenses. Should still work if the EVF-M keeps an M mount and the roller cam of the rangefinder. Same as the M11 with the Visoflex 2.

I think you just made a very important point and at least for me, really clarified something. 
 

This thread started after a rumor of an EVF-M. In roughly 24 hours, it’s morphed into a huge wishlist of what this camera should have, possible or improbable. I’m totally guilty of imagining a slick new body design, IBIS, the SL3 menus and Leicons, and even a flip screen. Everything the M12 probably won’t have (except the new menus).

What if we think outside the box by thinking inside the box? 

As a design variant, not a new product line, this EVF-M makes perfect sense….tests the waters without too much risk, and satisfies a limited buyer group like the monochrom and MD.

Introducing the Leica M11-V

It’s a M11-P without rangefinder and inside is the EVF and exactly the same experience as using a visioflex on the M11. We know that works fine with M lenses with a little box on top of the camera, so why not a little box inside the camera?

Of course a M11-D name would make more sense, but that’s taken. 

[lct]

Excerpt of the LSI survey in 2023: (link)

Quote

[...] what we are discussing here is a camera based on a current M digital body but incorporating an EVF with characteristics like the current external Visoflex 2 instead of the optical viewfinder. This would mean that it would have the same resolution as the current Visoflex 2, the same frame rate and blackout time. It would also have the same eyepoint for spectacle wearers and the same viewing angle. Battery life would be equivalent to the current M11 with the Visoflex 2 attached [...]

 

[Stevejack]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Excerpt of the LSI survey in 2023: (link)

 

That would be crazy IMO... I just don't see the point in an EVF-M with the same resolution / specs as the visoflex 2.   I wouldn't buy it, and I REALLY want an EVF-M.

But hey, they gave us exactly the same EVF on the SL3 that was used in the SL2, and that was what... 4 years of development time? Like I've been saying, Leica has been extremely lazy with their newer releases. 

[gotium]

12 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

That would be crazy IMO... I just don't see the point in an EVF-M with the same resolution / specs as the visoflex 2.   I wouldn't buy it, and I REALLY want an EVF-M.

But hey, they gave us exactly the same EVF on the SL3 that was used in the SL2, and that was what... 4 years of development time? Like I've been saying, Leica has been extremely lazy with their newer releases. 

Well yes, if it's an evf it would have to be a GOOD evf

[lct]

And then cannibalizing the M11 or M12 with their inferior Visoflex? The LSI got it right IMHO.

[charlesphoto99]

8 hours ago, SrMi said:

Several audience members pointed out that while they preferred the small size and weight of the M — which ideally complements the small M optics — they were experiencing difficulty working with the rangefinder because of eyesight problems.

And then they went on to complain of knee, hip, hearing, denture, and prostrate problems...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said:

And then they went on to complain of knee, hip, hearing, denture, and prostrate problems...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Mocking other people's disability or limitations is very gauche. 

[luigi bertolotti]

9 hours ago, gotium said:

There are better ways of doing EVF manual focus than what Sony does - Panasonic has a little square that zooms for focus, while the rest of the screen stays at 1:1 for composition, for example, and Nikon has focus confirmation without needing to zoom. I'm sure there's some way of making it work as well as a rangefinder - which has all sorts of limitations. 

I tested their system : it was simply into a shop, but had a very good feel (better than Fuji X, the only other I experienced) : given the well running (I think) relations Panasonic-Leica, it could be a smart addon... it also mimicks our perennial RF path 😁

Edited February 10 by luigi bertolotti