rotating and charging batteries

[mort linder]

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i know the battery question has been discussed a few times , but i still have a question . i have 4 numbered batteries and rotate them . i will have a battery in the camera for maybe a week or more  and rotate the backup battery i carry when the battery gets down to 20-30% . i hardly ever have to use a backup battery when i am out shooting . the backup seems to always lose charge and will be down to 90-95% . if i am home , i will charge the backup battery to 100% , and then charge the next backup battery , which has also lost a full charge , to 100% . my question is whether it is good to charge the batteries that have lost charge to 100% when i start to use them , or should i just use them in their slightly discharged state . i  charge the depleted battery to 100% , and it is at the end of the rotation . i know we are all trying to have our batteries last as long as possible , and i also like my battery to last when i am out photographing . i feel fortunate to have acquired extra batteries before they were discontinued . i appreciate all answers .

 

 

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[jakontil]

4 hours ago, mort linder said:

i know the battery question has been discussed a few times , but i still have a question . i have 4 numbered batteries and rotate them . i will have a battery in the camera for maybe a week or more  and rotate the backup battery i carry when the battery gets down to 20-30% . i hardly ever have to use a backup battery when i am out shooting . the backup seems to always lose charge and will be down to 90-95% . if i am home , i will charge the backup battery to 100% , and then charge the next backup battery , which has also lost a full charge , to 100% . my question is whether it is good to charge the batteries that have lost charge to 100% when i start to use them , or should i just use them in their slightly discharged state . i  charge the depleted battery to 100% , and it is at the end of the rotation . i know we are all trying to have our batteries last as long as possible , and i also like my battery to last when i am out photographing . i feel fortunate to have acquired extra batteries before they were discontinued . i appreciate all answers .

 

 

First off, batteries aint discontinued AFAIK, secondly i think it is oke to charge the depleted battery to max before use.. but for my own case, i never do so.. just start using, even if it is down to 75%… i always have a spare one and the other at home 

when i got back, i would replace the used one with the other allegedly fully charged battery and promote the third into my spare battery when out and leave the last used one at home fully charged

[mujk]

I agree with @jakontil. All discharge/charge cycles reduce the age of the battery, but charging from 90% to 100% ages it very little compared to a charge from 0% to 100%. However, keeping a fully charged battery in a high temperature is not good for the battery. The optimal long term storage charge level is about 50%.

Usually I don't recharge spare batteries with a 90-95% charge unless I suspect I will need all of them before I can recharge. Otherwise, if the charge of the one I'm going to use next is clearly less than 90% I might recharge before using it.

[AceVentura1986]

2 hours ago, jakontil said:

First off, batteries aint discontinued AFAIK, secondly i think it is oke to charge the depleted battery to max before use.. but for my own case, i never do so.. just start using, even if it is down to 75%… i always have a spare one and the other at home 

when i got back, i would replace the used one with the other allegedly fully charged battery and promote the third into my spare battery when out and leave the last used one at home fully charged

Yes, I do not think they’ve actually been discontinued BUT they are so hard to come by now they might was well be discontinued. B&H has had them listed them as “back ordered” for at least 9 months so far, if not longer. Given this situation, a consistent rotation system is a smart idea. 

I have three batteries that I rotate across my M10P and M10M. They are each numbered. If I’m just carrying the camera w me on the chance that I’ll spot an interesting photo or two, I’ll carry whatever battery is in the camera provided it’s at least charged to 50%. If the battery is below 50% or if I know I’ll be shooting more than just a few shots, then I’ll use the battery in the charger and rotate the next numbered battery into the charger. Note, the next numbered battery might actually NOT be in the camera that I will be carrying, depending on whether I’m shooting BW or color. 

Also, while I charge a battery upon rotation, once charged I will remove the battery, flip it so that it can’t be further charged and just rest it in the charger. While I’d won’t fit in the slot given this orientation it is a sign to me for the that I did fully charge the battery. 

Using this system, I hope to keep the batteries healthy for a few years, until the battery shortage has been resolved or I decide to trade in my cameras for a newer version. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by AceVentura1986

[jaapv]

My M8 batteries from 2006 still hold enough power to get up to an adequate number of shots ( I’d say about 100) in my M9 cameras so there is hope   

[jgeenen]

According to my knowledge „topping up“ a battery makes no difference to the lifetime of a battery (provided the charging electronics prevents overcharging). In other words: charging from 80 to 100, using 30% and then recharging from remaining 70 to 100 has the same effect as taking the 80% charged battery, using 30% of capacity and then recharging from 50 to 100.

however, it is not a good idea to shelve (and cycle) batteries that are never been used. Due to the chemical processes inside the camera, all batteries will age over time regardless if moderately or heavily used. It is more cost effective to cycle the least number of batteries you need for heavy shooting and add a new battery when one is weakening than to cycle a large number of nearly unused batteries for years.

You are afraid of getting new batteries in 10 years or so? I don‘t know the future, but you can still replenish old Leica DMR batteries or Rolleiflex SLX batteries that are out of production for decades. Why shouldn’t this be possible for M10 batteries?

[charlesphoto99]

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22 minutes ago, jgeenen said:

Why shouldn’t this be possible for M10 batteries?

Because they have a proprietary chip in them. So if Leica doesn't release the code/schematics for that, no third party can work on them. 

[jgeenen]

vor einer Stunde schrieb charlesphoto99:

Because they have a proprietary chip in them. So if Leica doesn't release the code/schematics for that, no third party can work on them. 

Typically only the cells need to be replaced. With a little work the chip can be reused. 

[charlesphoto99]

44 minutes ago, jgeenen said:

Typically only the cells need to be replaced. With a little work the chip can be reused. 

The idea of having to mod batteries for a camera that was produced in the tens (hundred?) of thousands in at least four different variations is ludicrous. The DMR was a very small run (bit over 2000 I believe). 

Leica really need to take a long hard look at this battery thing. 

[jgeenen]

With SL/Q2+ Leica has chosen the best way: casing compatibility will allow to buy fresh batteries without creating costly stockage issues. On M that is still different - every generation needed it‘s own battery. Hope this will change in near future (no debate about bottom plates, please)

We‘ll see, how Leica handles this potential issue. As I pointed out earlier stocking of batteries will buy some time, but even unused and well maintained and stored batteries will age sooner or later. Refurbishing will always be the last resort of help once the supply chains drain out and the existing batteries are getting too low on capacity (as jaapv mentioned this may take quite a while). 

[Stephen.s1]

FWIW; I have five batteries for my 2 M's.  I stack the batteries and when needed grab the battery on the bottom of the charged pile of three (there are always batteries in the two cameras) simple system.  No numbers needed. 

[T25UFO]

9 hours ago, AceVentura1986 said:

BUT they are so hard to come by now they might was well be discontinued.

Not in the UK - Leica Mayfair have new stock for delivery in 2-5 business days, although that doesn’t help if you’re in the USA.  I think there are restrictions on shipping batteries overseas.

[jakontil]

13 hours ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Yes, I do not think they’ve actually been discontinued BUT they are so hard to come by now they might was well be discontinued. B&H has had them listed them as “back ordered” for at least 9 months so far, if not longer. Given this situation, a consistent rotation system is a smart idea. 

I have three batteries that I rotate across my M10P and M10M. They are each numbered. If I’m just carrying the camera w me on the chance that I’ll spot an interesting photo or two, I’ll carry whatever battery is in the camera provided it’s at least charged to 50%. If the battery is below 50% or if I know I’ll be shooting more than just a few shots, then I’ll use the battery in the charger and rotate the next numbered battery into the charger. Note, the next numbered battery might actually NOT be in the camera that I will be carrying, depending on whether I’m shooting BW or color. 

Also, while I charge a battery upon rotation, once charged I will remove the battery, flip it so that it can’t be further charged and just rest it in the charger. While I’d won’t fit in the slot given this orientation it is a sign to me for the that I did fully charge the battery. 

Using this system, I hope to keep the batteries healthy for a few years, until the battery shortage has been resolved or I decide to trade in my cameras for a newer version. 

This exactly what i have been doing too, but i believe the M10 batteries would last, given the state of self-discharge anomaly, either it’s a flaw or it’s actually a ‘feature’ to stretch its lifespan..

given the situation @jaapv‘s batteries still hold at least 70-80% capacity, we shouldnt worry

i think they M11 battery states might come standard in the coming Leica’s M, we seen such measures in SL and Q series 

[Alberti]

I try not to use a battery below 30/40%. 

Specially the M8/M9/Monochrom one do not like that is my experience. Depleted, they can take a long time to rewind themselves, and stall for indefinite time somewhere halfway of charging (the blinking lights phenomenon). 

[Wandering Photographer]

I don’t know the design specifications for the Leica batteries; however, my VAIO laptop has an option that keeps it from being charged more than 80%. This has meant that the battery on the first one I bought when it was still a division of Sony lasted until other parts of the computer got flakey. My latest iPad Pro has an option that lets you keep the % of charging below 80% this seems to prolong the life of the battery considerably.

The Leica M10-R and M11 chargers have two lights. The orange one comes on when the battery reaches 80% charge. Unfortunately there is no switch that will allow you to stop charging at 80%. I, and I don’t imagine you want to hang around waiting watching the charger to take the battery out when the orange light comes on. 
 

One possible strategy is to top off a battery just before taking the camera out for use. Perhaps Leica could integrate a switch in their chargers that would allow one to switch between 80% and 100% charge for its Li Ion batteries. I am sure users would appreciate it.

[Barralad]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been covered - I’ve searched but not found the answer - but I have a spare battery (for Q3) that I’ve never used. I’m keeping it as a spare but would it be best to [a] leave it as is or [b] charge it once in a while? My initial assumption was that [a] was the right thing to do but someone has suggested [b] is the way to go. Any advice welcome.

[AceVentura1986]

2 hours ago, Barralad said:

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been covered - I’ve searched but not found the answer - but I have a spare battery (for Q3) that I’ve never used. I’m keeping it as a spare but would it be best to [a] leave it as is or [b] charge it once in a while? My initial assumption was that [a] was the right thing to do but someone has suggested [b] is the way to go. Any advice welcome.

It’s best to cycle the batteries. If you look above in this thread, in post #4 I’ve explained my system. Post #11 details a slightly different system, tho you might come up with your own. Regardless, you’re better off cycling the batteries. 

[pgk]

FWIW. I have been using a mix of M8 & M9 batteries since I got an M8 when it was available new. I've only had one battery fail so far and I've lost one! I still have and use batteries marked M8. I don't look after batteries inasmuch as I use them until the cameras give me a low battery warning and then charge them. I don't rotate them but do tend to store them charged. All are still working fine and whilst I don't check for the precise number of exposure each will do I don't find are any concerning problems with them. I do the same with Sony and Canon batteries. All still work ok. IMO batteries should quite simply work as advertised without having to be pedantic over their use, charging, storage whatever. The only area I am careful in is charging which happens when I can keep an eye on them and check to see if any are overheating. 

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[Bikie John]

I read somewhere (probably on here but I can't remember where) that unused batteries are in some sort of inert state which changes once you charge them for the first time. Is there any basis for this? If there is, it might make sense to keep an unused spare lying around. If there isn't, it would probably be best to rotate as described above.

John

[mujk]

On 1/3/2025 at 2:32 PM, Bikie John said:

I read somewhere (probably on here but I can't remember where) that unused batteries are in some sort of inert state which changes once you charge them for the first time. Is there any basis for this? If there is, it might make sense to keep an unused spare lying around. If there isn't, it would probably be best to rotate as described above.

John

AFAIK lithium batteries are charged to 50-70% on manufacture. As already mentioned earlier in this thread this is is the optimum long-term storage charge level. The batteries will self-discharge over time (1,5 to 2% per month), so any newly purchased battery should be charged. Rotation is not requored to keep the battery in good shape if you just recharge it every now and then (maybe once a year) to 50% or somewhat above and put it back into storage. But rotating all your batteries will cause them to wear more evenly, so it may still be a good idea.