Second hand purchases, cabinet queen vs well used example?

[Derbyshire Man]

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What do people think about this? On one hand one wonders if the well used example is being disposed of as possibly damaged but the flip side is it's a much loved lens. The cabinet queen looks perfect and well looked after but that may of course be because it never lived up to expectations!

I hate buying duff lenses but I also quite like it that a used lens, particularly one significantly used doesn't engender that initial OCD of panicking about the first flesh wound!

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[a.noctilux]

Mixed scenario for me.

Not really fix because the lens can be used but still good for longer use, while not "used" can develop some "grease drying" symtome or something else...

The best way is find the best unit you can then try them with your own criteria, then decide, so why some can accept return.

So it depends.

In my own long buy/sell life, I can sell accepting a small loss for more time to learn to know the gear.

[UliWer]

I don‘t think you can follow a general rule when you deal with objects and their history. You have to look closely at each item and test how it works with your camera.

[KFo]

For me, it also depends.  Sometimes I’m just taking a flyer on trying out different lens and I’ve no real commitment.  In that case I buy rougher examples.  For lenses that I am sure about I buy as near mint as I can find without paying collector prices.  

For cameras, I tend towards mint or near mint, once again without paying collector prices.

[Danner]

I'd choose the cabinet queen.

[pedaes]

6 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I hate buying duff lenses

Have you?

With Leica lenses, the mounts are fairly robust and serviceable, so main concerns are 'cleaning marks' on front elements and fungus/haze inside older lenses.

Due diligence is your friend.

Edited October 31, 2024 by pedaes

[69xchange]

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I’d choose used mint condition/cabinet queen to save a bit of money and also to maximize resale value if I were to ever sell it in the future.  Lens grease doesn’t dry like camera grease, so it can be stored up to years or more without having issues unlike the cameras where movement and timing of curtains are critical. 

[Derbyshire Man]

20 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Have you?

With Leica lenses, the mounts are fairly robust and serviceable, so main concerns are 'cleaning marks' on front elements and fungus/haze inside older lenses.

Due diligence is your friend.

e.g. Leica summarit 90mm (SH) with back focus.

[lct]

I don't care provided the stuff is sold by a reputable dealer with warranty.

[costa43]

I’m with you on the first scratch ocd, it’s actually a relief once I mark my gear, my photography definitely improves! I do like to be the one putting the scratches on though, especially when it’s an item I know I will keep long term.
In the end, it comes down to value for me when I’m shopping around. I would always take a gamble and go for the cabinet queen over a well used example, unless that well used example was a real bargain.

[pippy]

Where lenses are concerned the primary criteria (assuming focus is accurate!) are no nasty scratches on element surfaces, no fungus and no / minimal haze / separation. After that it is no 'body-wobble'. Then comes smooth focus and decent aperture click-stop detents. Cosmetic condition comes quite far down in the 'order-of-importance' stakes.

Philip.

[Vanillasludge]

I’ve found the best performing used lenses are those with perfect glass and worn barrels. 
 

Mint lenses are sometimes in that condition because they are sold off by dissatisfied owners.  

[oekoek]

Well, I bought a cabinet queen recently, a 35/2,8 Summaron. The grease was very dry, it was almost impossible to focus the thing. But after i got it back from a visit to Will van Maanen it works perfectly smooth and it looks almost like new. Image quality is also very satisfying, so I am quite happy with it.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Really, the most important dividing line is choosing between private sales vs. a reputable dealer. 

If you don't personally know the private party offering the item for sale, and if you can't take a detailed look at the item prior to the purchase, it's very, very difficult to get a genuinely solid idea of what you're potentially buying. There are lenses that look beautiful that turn out to be terrible, and there are lenses that look terrible that turn out to work beautifully. 

The only approach that gets you close to a sure thing is to work with a professional dealer, one that handles used equipment routinely, that has a documented grading scale for used equipment they sell, and that backs up the sale with a published, well-thought-out policy covering returns after purchase. Anything else is a roll of the dice. That is to say, a gamble. 

Over lo these many years I've evolved to a position of purchasing used equipment only from a handful of professional businesses I've dealt with before. 

Similarly, when I'm done with a piece of equipment and I'm ready to part with it, I'll do so only to a handful of professional businesses I've dealt with before.

This means acquiring a realistic sense of the cost of things, and realizing that exceptions to those costs are found only on the other side of a gamble.

The best thing about those reputable dealers that have a good return policy? In all the years I've bought used equipment from that handful of stores, I've never, not once, had to exercise that return policy. Not once. 

[charlesphoto99]

28 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

The only approach that gets you close to a sure thing is to work with a professional dealer

Even then things can sometimes not be what they appear. Case in point, bought a 135mm APO from PopFlash a few years back. Good deal at the time ($1900), but after a couple or so years the lens started falling apart. Sent it to DAG, and he said somebody did a hack repair job at one time, and used the wrong screws and so on. He had to drill them out, leaving the barrel ugly in places. I've since scratched the front element (which doesn't affect the image) so cosmetically the lens is a mess, but I love it and have gotten more than my share of $$ out of it and will die with it.

I actually prefer, if possible, to buy a well used lens that has reputable repair paperwork along with it. Or if a newer lens, then actually get the feel of it. I've had to return a few newer lenses due to the stickiness of the focus. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by charlesphoto99

[Jeff S]

43 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Even then things can sometimes not be what they appear. Case in point, bought a 135mm APO from PopFlash a few years back. Good deal at the time ($1900), but after a couple or so years the lens started falling apart. Sent it to DAG, and he said somebody did a hack repair job at one time, and used the wrong screws and so on. He had to drill them out, leaving the barrel ugly in places. I've since scratched the front element (which doesn't affect the image) so cosmetically the lens is a mess, but I love it and have gotten more than my share of $$ out of it and will die with it.

 

Stuff happens, but a trusted dealer can minimize the chances of bad stuff.  For instance, Leica Miami often charges more for fine condition used gear, but they also will often send gear to DAG or to Leica in advance of sale. This can provide the benefit of additional warranty from DAG or Leica, in addition to store warranty and return policy. I’ve never had a bad experience sticking with this approach, and not chasing the best bargain.  Likewise, when it comes time for sale or trade, I stick with trusted dealers unless I personally know the buyer. 

Jeff

[pgk]

I either buy with a good warranty from a reputable dealer or cheap. Cosmetics are irrelevant provided the optics and mechanics are fine. Do your research into any known issues with a lens, check with the seller to ensure that any issues have either been dealt with or that the lens doesn't have them, and then check it and test it. Used stuff is fine most of the time but there are the unscrupulous and the ignorant who think that Leica stuff is always valuable and try to charge accordingly. What is accurate to say is that 'valuable' Leica lenses can be very expensive on repairs too. Most good Leica dealers will sell well inspected lenses, and yes they dooccasionally get caught out and it is their response when they do that defines just how good they are. Reputations matter and by reading through the forum it should be evident which dealers retain good ones.

[charlesphoto99]

15 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Stuff happens, but a trusted dealer can minimize the chances of bad stuff.  For instance, Leica Miami often charges more for fine condition used gear, but they also will often send gear to DAG or to Leica in advance of sale. This can provide the benefit of additional warranty from DAG or Leica, in addition to store warranty and return policy. I’ve never had a bad experience sticking with this approach, and not chasing the best bargain.  Likewise, when it comes time for sale or trade, I stick with trusted dealers unless I personally know the buyer. 

Jeff

I didn't mean to single out PopFlash, as I've had very good dealings otherwise with them through the years, and once the problem with the lens made itself known, three years had passed so no recourse other than to have it fixed. The problem isn't the dealer being untrustworthy, but the person selling/trading them the lens not being fully forthcoming what was under the hood, so to speak (and in this case almost literally under the hood). A dealer, unless they have every lens and body serviced, can only pass on what's obvious to them. Same goes for used hifi and other things. So being honest is the TLDR I suppose. 

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[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said:

I didn't mean to single out PopFlash, as I've had very good dealings otherwise with them through the years, and once the problem with the lens made itself known, three years had passed so no recourse other than to have it fixed. The problem isn't the dealer being untrustworthy, but the person selling/trading them the lens not being fully forthcoming what was under the hood, so to speak (and in this case almost literally under the hood). A dealer, unless they have every lens and body serviced, can only pass on what's obvious to them. Same goes for used hifi and other things. So being honest is the TLDR I suppose. 

Sure, I’ve used PopFlash as well; Tony is a good guy.  Miami, however, does thorough inspections before listing, so they find things others may not. And they’ll get it serviced first if not, rather than discounting. But, as you say, it’s about trustworthiness.

Jeff

[pgk]

23 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I have bought from a TRUSTED dealer 3 times with major (hidden) problems. The problems resurfaced either after 14 days EU online return policy or after a month of "warranty" the seller gives you. One seller was from Europe, the other from Japan. "TRUSTED/REPUTABLE SELLER" is absolutely NO guarantee for anything, maybe in the USA it is easier to deal with them but in EU or Japan not so much.

Any decent dealer will offer a full 6 month warranty at least and some even offer a full year warranty. Many will take an item back within 14 days (if you buy internationally a really reputable dealer should extend this obviously, so its worth negotiating with them) and will repair after that. Any dealer offering merely a 1 month warranty isn't what I would consider as reputable as they might be and prices should reflect the short warranty.