SL3 Exposure Preview Issue Firmware Request

[jaapv]

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True. And I am sure that Leica reads those messages, usually gives a polite response and then files 99.9% of them. It took something like 15 years of user requests to change LENR…

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[Smogg]

Leica programmers now have the main task of making stable firmware. They are handcuffed to a pipe and not fed until they fix critical bugs. Set aside your wishes for at least a year.

[Luke_Miller]

I don't shoot in a way that reveals this issue.  But when I duplicated the OP's settings it was obvious and distracting due to the dramatic change to the EVF image. That change occurs in manual exposure mode when the camera momentarily disables Exposure Preview during the autofocus operation.  So all the user's manual exposure setting changes to the image produced by the camera's metering system disappear for an instant and are replaced by the original image produced by the metering system.  If one is in matrix metering and has a subject that is backlighted the manually entered exposure setting changes will be significant in order to bring the exposure of the subject up to the proper level.  Then when the shutter is half pressed the EVF image returns to its initial state with the subject seriously underexposed.  Not only is this distracting, it also means that the autofocus system may not achieve focus on the face.

While others may see the change in the EVF as a problem, I see it this way.  The view in the EVF when Exposure Preview in not active appears to use the selected metering mode (matrix, center weighted, spot, highlight weighted, etc.), so if I get a dramatic brightening or darkening of the EVF image with a half press of the shutter button the camera is telling me I have selected the wrong metering mode.  Since my bodies (SL and SL2) are contrast detect autofocus only, getting the exposure correct is critical to autofocus performance. When I am using a metering mode appropriate to the scene, my exposure changes are minor as are the changes in the EVF image.

[Steve Babuljak]

7 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

Finally someone also got the idea that this whole blinking of exposure is kinda wrong 
Steve, I am also buffled that no one got distracted by that issue

Thank you @CptSlevin! If you have a moment please send Leica a message if you haven’t. I get they are a slow moving machine but I have to imagine the more folks mention something it has to move the request further along. 

[Steve Babuljak]

32 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

I don't shoot in a way that reveals this issue.  But when I duplicated the OP's settings it was obvious and distracting due to the dramatic change to the EVF image. That change occurs in manual exposure mode when the camera momentarily disables Exposure Preview during the autofocus operation.  So all the user's manual exposure setting changes to the image produced by the camera's metering system disappear for an instant and are replaced by the original image produced by the metering system.  If one is in matrix metering and has a subject that is backlighted the manually entered exposure setting changes will be significant in order to bring the exposure of the subject up to the proper level.  Then when the shutter is half pressed the EVF image returns to its initial state with the subject seriously underexposed.  Not only is this distracting, it also means that the autofocus system may not achieve focus on the face.

While others may see the change in the EVF as a problem, I see it this way.  The view in the EVF when Exposure Preview in not active appears to use the selected metering mode (matrix, center weighted, spot, highlight weighted, etc.), so if I get a dramatic brightening or darkening of the EVF image with a half press of the shutter button the camera is telling me I have selected the wrong metering mode.  Since my bodies (SL and SL2) are contrast detect autofocus only, getting the exposure correct is critical to autofocus performance. When I am using a metering mode appropriate to the scene, my exposure changes are minor as are the changes in the EVF image.

Good explanation here @Luke_Miller  

[DanRP]

Steve, I just want to say that you are absolutely correct on this issue.  Also, there is a lot of confusion in this thread.

Here's my experience:

Settings: FULL MANUAL mode (manual focus, manual exposure, manual iso, manual aperture, manual shutter speed, etc.).  Drive mode set to 2fps.

Camera at rest: EVF shows image correctly based on the MANUAL aperture, shuttter and ISO I have set.

Press & hold shutter button: After first picture is taken, EVF view changes to a different exposure based on whatever auto exposure mode the camera is set to.

Pictures produced: All pictures produced are exposed correctly based on the manual settings.

The most important point: If the camera is in full manual exposure, why should the EVF ever display the image according to the auto exposure calculation?

For me, doing concert photography, this often results in the EVF showing me a VERY overexposed view of the scene during drive mode.  This means that I can't easily make subtle focus adjustments or generally assess the image that's being produced.

In a nutshell: if you are in manual exposure mode the EVF should ONLY show the image with the exposure you dialed in because this is the exposure that going to be produced in the final image.

[Luke_Miller]

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2 hours ago, DanRP said:

The most important point: If the camera is in full manual exposure, why should the EVF ever display the image according to the auto exposure calculation?

The camera autofocuses using the image in the EVF and has the auto exposure system generate it during focus operations.  It zeros the exposure meter.  For best autofocus performance the user must select the metering mode most suitable to the scene.  If that is the case the change in the EVF will not be dramatic.  Other maker camera use sensors use sensors with dual output channels and do not use the EVF feed for autofocus.  All has been discussed in detail in this thread.

[DanRP]

35 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

The camera autofocuses using the image in the EVF and has the auto exposure system generate it during focus operations.  It zeros the exposure meter.  For best autofocus performance the user must select the metering mode most suitable to the scene.  If that is the case the change in the EVF will not be dramatic.  Other maker camera use sensors use sensors with dual output channels and do not use the EVF feed for autofocus.  All has been discussed in detail in this thread.

Good point, but In my case I'm in manual focus mode (using an M-lens), so I don't think this explains why this phenomenon is happening for me.

[Luke_Miller]

I missed the part about being in manual focus. That is a mystery, it should not do that.  What camera and lens mount adapter?

[DanRP]

Just now, Luke_Miller said:

I missed the part about being in manual focus. That is a mystery, it should not do that.  What camera and lens mount adapter?

I'm using a Leica SL3 with a Noctilux f0.95 connected with the Leica M-L adapter.  This also happens with my Sigma autofocus lenses (set to manual focus).

[Luke_Miller]

I can't speak to the SL3 since I have the SL and SL2.   So it occurs on the second and subsequent exposures when in continuous shooting. This sounds like a firmware bug. If you report it to Leica, they can add it to the list.

[Jonathan Levin]

So when is this a firmware bug or a unit that needs to go in for service? 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 7/11/2024 at 6:22 PM, jaapv said:

True. And I am sure that Leica reads those messages, usually gives a polite response and then files 99.9% of them. It took something like 15 years of user requests to change LENR…

Only 10 more years to EFCS then!

Gordon

[Steve Babuljak]

12 hours ago, DanRP said:

Steve, I just want to say that you are absolutely correct on this issue.  Also, there is a lot of confusion in this thread.

Here's my experience:

Settings: FULL MANUAL mode (manual focus, manual exposure, manual iso, manual aperture, manual shutter speed, etc.).  Drive mode set to 2fps.

Camera at rest: EVF shows image correctly based on the MANUAL aperture, shuttter and ISO I have set.

Press & hold shutter button: After first picture is taken, EVF view changes to a different exposure based on whatever auto exposure mode the camera is set to.

Pictures produced: All pictures produced are exposed correctly based on the manual settings.

The most important point: If the camera is in full manual exposure, why should the EVF ever display the image according to the auto exposure calculation?

For me, doing concert photography, this often results in the EVF showing me a VERY overexposed view of the scene during drive mode.  This means that I can't easily make subtle focus adjustments or generally assess the image that's being produced.

In a nutshell: if you are in manual exposure mode the EVF should ONLY show the image with the exposure you dialed in because this is the exposure that going to be produced in the final image.

When I'm using a manual lens or and AF lens set to manual I don't experience any changes to the rear screen or EVF. BUT I just tried your settings in a dark room and if Enhanced Live View is on I do get a brighter preview until press the shutter. Could that be it?

[DanRP]

8 hours ago, Steve Babuljak said:

When I'm using a manual lens or and AF lens set to manual I don't experience any changes to the rear screen or EVF. BUT I just tried your settings in a dark room and if Enhanced Live View is on I do get a brighter preview until press the shutter. Could that be it?

I have Enhanced Live View turned off, so that is not what is affecting me.  The behavior you describe above sounds like what is supposed to happen.  Enhanced Live View is intended to show the image much brighter than the actual dialed-in exposure in order to assist you in composition in low-light situations.

[SrMi]

10 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Only 10 more years to EFCS then!

Gordon

I hope that in 10 years, we will have stacked sensors without mechanical shutters.