SL3 Exposure Preview Issue Firmware Request

[Steve Babuljak]

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5 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

What Luke wrote makes sense. Out of curiosity I did this:

Put the camera to Manual focus, Manual aperture and shutter, non-auto ISO. Doing so, there was no momentary change in the viewer brightness. That would indicate that Luke’s thought is correct. 

@Jean-Michel Yes with manual lenses or manual focus it doesn't do this, just with AF. But as I just mentioned in any of the auto or priority modes it does't change the exposure preview ever to auto focus, even if exposure compensation is use to over or under expose the image.

[Luke_Miller]

12 minutes ago, Steve Babuljak said:

 

I can't speak to Canon and Sony, but my Nikon mirrorless bodies don't do this either.  My understanding is that the Nikon sensors are dual output channel.  One channel drives the EVF/LCD and the second  ultimately sends the data to the memory card.  Presumably Nikon uses the second channel for autofocus so no changes to exposure preview are necessary.  If the SL sensors are single channel then Leica is using the data to the EVF/LCD for autofocus and feels it necessary to discard the user exposure settings during autofocusing.  Leica could decide to always us the exposure preview image for autofocus at the risk of novice user complaints about poor autofocus performance when in manual exposure.  Sort of a Hobson's choice.

Edited July 10 by Luke_Miller

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[Steve Babuljak]

@Luke_Miller Shot Sony for years and also recently the Fuji GFX system, they dont do it either. Same with Canon.

What do you suspect the camera is doing during Auto ISO and the A and S priority modes? The preview doesn't change to gain AF?

Edited July 10 by Steve Babuljak

[Smogg]

2 hours ago, Steve Babuljak said:

@Luke_Miller Shot Sony for years and also recently the Fuji GFX system, they dont do it either. Same with Canon.

What do you suspect the camera is doing during Auto ISO and the A and S priority modes? The preview doesn't change to gain AF?

Leica doesn't have modern fast autofocus technology, they have found themselves playing catch-up in the market, so this is the kind of thing you have to live with if you want to use Leica

[Luke_Miller]

2 hours ago, Steve Babuljak said:

@Luke_Miller Shot Sony for years and also recently the Fuji GFX system, they dont do it either. Same with Canon.

What do you suspect the camera is doing during Auto ISO and the A and S priority modes? The preview doesn't change to gain AF?

I think the design assumption is the auto exposure system will provide an EVF image good enough for autofocus.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Steve Babuljak said:

@Luke_Miller Shot Sony for years and also recently the Fuji GFX system, they dont do it either. Same with Canon.

What do you suspect the camera is doing during Auto ISO and the A and S priority modes? The preview doesn't change to gain AF?

Well, Leica is known for not being Sony or Fuji or Canon, it is their raison d'être. If it is an essential for you, the conclusion is simple.

[Jean-Michel]

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I have the luxury of no longer depending on my equipment for paying the bills, so Steve's issue is quite irrelevant for me. I am not sure that it would bother me even if i had to photograph using an AF and manual aperture and exposure time and set ISO. I of course only had manual everything for decades, and no preview of anything, and just a handheld light meters, etc., etc. AF is great, as long as it focuses on exactly what you want it to focus on. It seems to me that in today's cameras if you want to control your exposure (as you should) all you need to do is set the ISO, and use either Aperture or Shutter priority to adjust either to what is required to produce the desired exposure. The so-called exposure compensation wheel simply adjust the setting of the non-prioritized control. And aa Jaapv just noted, if the tool is not the correct one for your use, get one that works for you.

[TwentyEighthParallel]

5 hours ago, Steve Babuljak said:

@Luke_Miller All other pro systems do not do this so this is why I'm asking users to make the request. 

 

You're absolutely right. My Nikon Z cameras don't do that. What you see before half-pressing is what you see during half-pressing.

[Steve Babuljak]

2 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

I have the luxury of no longer depending on my equipment for paying the bills, so Steve's issue is quite irrelevant for me. I am not sure that it would bother me even if i had to photograph using an AF and manual aperture and exposure time and set ISO. I of course only had manual everything for decades, and no preview of anything, and just a handheld light meters, etc., etc. AF is great, as long as it focuses on exactly what you want it to focus on. It seems to me that in today's cameras if you want to control your exposure (as you should) all you need to do is set the ISO, and use either Aperture or Shutter priority to adjust either to what is required to produce the desired exposure. The so-called exposure compensation wheel simply adjust the setting of the non-prioritized control. And aa Jaapv just noted, if the tool is not the correct one for your use, get one that works for you.

I too have done things manually for decades just as you describe, I started on film with fully mechanical cameras and still shoot my M2 and M6.

Aperture or Shutter priority does produce consistent results in the many commercial situations I am hired to shoot in so fully manual is a must. 

With the introduction of the SL3 Leica now has a camera that can compete with the other major brands and this is why I have chosen to invest in it. It just needs a few improvements. If others are not bothered by my issue with exposure preview and don't feel compelled to reach out to Leica then so be it. My intent is the move this camera system forward with accommodations and support for professional use that will only benefit all users.

@jaapv

When one has the perspective of well this is just how it is, deal with it or move on it projects elitism and exclusion vs inclusion and support. I have shot M cameras for decades and am now entering the SL world. I made the assumption these types of forums exists to support other users. I was hoping this forum would be a place to provide support and collectively improve what we all have become quite fond of.

[jaapv]

If you have been with Leica for decades you must know that it is singularly unproductive to try and force them to reverse a design decision, especially one that is correct in their eyes This one is appreciated by other users who have a different use case than you have which will almost certainly make Leica immovable.

I have learnt over my Leica decades (probably more than you  😉) to switch to alternatives whenever they did not march to my step. 

[Jean-Michel]

I am not sure if there is any much more to add in this thread, but, Steve, can you explain what additional control on exposure going on Manual gives you over A or S priority? In all cases you can select the aperture and exposure time as you wish; using A or S just makes it a bit quicker.

[Steve Babuljak]

@Jean-Michel In A or S the camera is still setting the exposure for you. In heavily backlit situations or fast changing environments exposure would vary or you might not get the exposure you intended.

[jaapv]

That is why one has spot measuring, a live histogram and EV compensation. At any rate that is the way I like to shoot a mirrorless in the situation you describe. 

[Steve Babuljak]

This is not about getting correct exposure, it is just about the distracting exposure preview that occurs when you half press the shutter in AF-S and when in AF-C it will darken or lighten your screen when half pressed while tracking making it difficult to see your subject. 

[Steve Babuljak]

It appears that most SL/Q users are not in full manual exposure with an AF lens so this issue does not occur to them and why it has never bothered many.

Edited July 11 by Steve Babuljak

[Luke_Miller]

When I am in manual exposure it will be with a manual focus lens, or in my studio with flash and exposure preview disabled. So it is not something I have experienced other than testing for it.

[Steve Babuljak]

2 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

When I am in manual exposure it will be with a manual focus lens, or in my studio with flash and exposure preview disabled. So it is not something I have experienced other than testing for it.

yeah makes sense! My favorite way to use the SL system is with M lenses but can't afford to miss the focus on commercial jobs

[Steve Babuljak]

See I’m not crazy! Here’s another user sharing the same issue: 

 

[CptSlevin]

Finally someone also got the idea that this whole blinking of exposure is kinda wrong 
Steve, I am also buffled that no one got distracted by that issue

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[LocalHero1953]

9 hours ago, Steve Babuljak said:

If others are not bothered by my issue with exposure preview and don't feel compelled to reach out to Leica then so be it. My intent is the move this camera system forward with accommodations and support for professional use that will only benefit all users

You are discovering that most users either do not see the issue (because of their practice) or are not distracted by it. Asking them to message Leica about it is a bit of a lost cause. Searching around the forum will reveal a range of issues that different users have with the SL (and every other camera and brand) - those who want their particular issue addressed will message Leica about it - or switch cameras.

Edited July 11 by LocalHero1953