WOW-only 200 of these lenses will be made!

[Jeff S]

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5 hours ago, algrove said:

Thanks. Another reason not to believe bloggers.🤮

Discussed here ad nauseam.  Mike Johnston, now editor of The Online Photographer (TOP), called the 35 Summicron v.4 the King of Bokeh in the caption of a 1997 article, when he was a photo magazine editor.  It subsequently took on a life of its own, despite his retraction and regret, once he actually tested the lens wide open and at close distances.  He has discussed the topic and details multiple times at TOP.

Mike also introduced the topic and spelling of ‘bokeh’ in that same magazine, to assist readers in the pronunciation of the Japanese term boke, so as not to rhyme with bloke. Seems that topic has also taken on a life of its own.

Jeff

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[farnz]

5 hours ago, Jacobjuul said:

I don't think they said 500 at any point, I think that was a miscommunication from leica-rumors etc

I bought one of the original 50/1.4 "Retro" Summilux asph Black Chrome lenses, which at the time was officially advertised by Leica as a "Limited Edition lens" that was limited to 500 pieces worldwide.  Nothing to do with the Leica Rumors site.  Leica later released more 500-piece batches of the lens, which is why they're still available new and why they don't sell for collector-style prices.

It must have been disappointing to those who bought the lens as a Limited Edition expecting its price to rise and behave as an investment.  I bought the lens to use and it's excellent so I have no interest in how many Leica releases.

But this has strayed off the thread's topic.

Pete.

[dpitt]

4 hours ago, farnz said:

t must have been disappointing to those who bought the lens as a Limited Edition expecting its price to rise and behave as an investment.  I bought the lens to use and it's excellent so I have no interest in how many Leica releases.

+1
Buy the lens to use and expect it to drop in price in the first few years. The remarkable thing about Leica is that if you wait long enough you will get your money back. I can not think of one M product that did not reach its original price within 20 years on the used market. Even their digital bodies are now approaching original price. I can remember M8 being sold at end of life around 2750€ and M9 around 3500€ brand new.

Compared to the competition in the camera world that is remarkable IMO

[overexposed]

The black chrome 35 summicron released at the same time did go up 3x since then and there are no rumors or facts that it was produced more than 500 times

god i love mine

[fil-m]

23 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Terminologically Leica has (since 2000s) two namings of their special editions and this was confirmed to me by Wetzlar HQ:

Limited edition: issued a certain amount of units in one batch but if demand surpasses those produced units, they do another batch or more batches. The units are not marked XXX/XXX. The mentioned black 50 lux was such example.

STRICTLY Limited edition: issued a certain amount of units in one batch and that’s it. The units are marked XXX/XXX.

Once you have this Leica terminology in your system, you understand their (intentional) modus operandi very clearly.

How do we figure out if it is limited or strictly limited? I don't recall them being that specific.

[patrickcolpron]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Terminologically Leica has (since 2000s) two namings of their special editions and this was confirmed to me by Wetzlar HQ:

Limited edition: issued a certain amount of units in one batch but if demand surpasses those produced units, they do another batch or more batches. The units are not marked XXX/XXX. The mentioned black 50 lux was such example.

STRICTLY Limited edition: issued a certain amount of units in one batch and that’s it. The units are marked XXX/XXX.

Once you have this Leica terminology in your system, you understand their (intentional) modus operandi very clearly.

Except that's ill informed in this case, not all editions have other batches when demand surpasses the product run. 

The New Steel Rim black edition, is numbered. There will not be more than 200 made. It is also the last product released this fiscal year for Leica. The one proposed to me was a number in the 40's.

Don't take my word for it. You can ask AlainD for a picture of the number "XX/200" on his lens

Also some products die of their accord, think about the 90/1.5 and 75/1.25 no more to be made for a long while, these lenses are gone. There is also a limited amount of resources any company has. Some products remain in the catalog longer than initially planned. Think about the 50/1.2 Noctilux re-issue. I might have been provided the wrong info, but someone at Leica told me, this lens was not going to be available for very long.

It's still on the catalog, the 50/1.2 is a great lens, whereas the Thambar M 90 disappeared fast and the 28/5.6 still remains too, go figure. 

Leica can only produce so many products at a time. 

Anyhoo, enough about the limited edition stuff - I think the photos we make with our camera gear is way more interesting to discuss than Leica's company policies, politics and procedures.

Leica is still around making great cameras (or not so great when it comes to the M11...) and lenses. That's cool enough in itself to satisfy me, I am not going to buy everything in the catalog and I have no interest in buying a lens only in the hope to resale for more than what I paid for it later on.

The way I use my equipment, no one here would buy a thoroughly used up lens or camera from me that's for sure, scuffed up and well worn... I'd rather use my gear to make photos with than baby it for the next guy in line for a good deal, or to make a buck on the Leica collector and Leicafil market. 

Edited March 23, 2024 by patrickcolpron
P.S.: But what do I know ?? I am nobody in the photography world...

[fil-m]

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1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

Well one just has to read what they write on the press release.

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Yes, thanks Al. I checked before on the Leica French site but did not see any press release or front page introduction (unless I missed something) except a reference in the product page in which they do not even mention the concept of "strictly" limited. In any way interesting to know that they make a distinction.  

[jaapv]

17 hours ago, algrove said:

You are talking about an entirely different animal. This 35/1.4 is considered the "King of Bokeh"

You're behind times. It is  "King of Bollocks" nowadays

[fil-m]

56 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

Except that's ill informed in this case, not all editions have other batches when demand surpasses the product run. 

The New Steel Rim black edition, is numbered. There will not be more than 200 made. It is also the last product released this fiscal year for Leica. The one proposed to me was a number in the 40's.

Don't take my word for it. You can ask AlainD for a picture of the number "XX/200" on his lens

Also some products die of their accord, think about the 90/1.5 and 75/1.25 no more to be made for a long while, these lenses are gone. There is also a limited amount of resources any company has. Some products remain in the catalog longer than initially planned. Think about the 50/1.2 Noctilux re-issue. I might have been provided the wrong info, but someone at Leica told me, this lens was not going to be available for very long.

It's still on the catalog, the 50/1.2 is a great lens, whereas the Thambar M 90 disappeared fast and the 28/5.6 still remains too, go figure. 

Leica can only produce so many products at a time. 

Anyhoo, enough about the limited edition stuff - I think the photos we make with our camera gear is way more interesting to discuss than Leica's company policies, politics and procedures.

Leica is still around making great cameras (or not so great when it comes to the M11...) and lenses. That's cool enough in itself to satisfy me, I am not going to buy everything in the catalog and I have no interest in buying a lens only in the hope to resale for more than what I paid for it later on.

The way I use my equipment, no one here would buy a thoroughly used up lens or camera from me that's for sure, scuffed up and well worn... I'd rather use my gear to make photos with than baby it for the next guy in line for a good deal, or to make a buck on the Leica collector and Leicafil market. 

Patrick, do they mention which lens still in the catalogue are no longer produced?

They keep on referencing the Lux 24, Thambar... what's the point if these are no longer available new unless from old stock (if any)?

[Smudgerer]

17 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

Except that's ill informed in this case, not all editions have other batches when demand surpasses the product run. 

The New Steel Rim black edition, is numbered. There will not be more than 200 made. It is also the last product released this fiscal year for Leica. The one proposed to me was a number in the 40's.

Don't take my word for it. You can ask AlainD for a picture of the number "XX/200" on his lens

Also some products die of their accord, think about the 90/1.5 and 75/1.25 no more to be made for a long while, these lenses are gone. There is also a limited amount of resources any company has. Some products remain in the catalog longer than initially planned. Think about the 50/1.2 Noctilux re-issue. I might have been provided the wrong info, but someone at Leica told me, this lens was not going to be available for very long.

It's still on the catalog, the 50/1.2 is a great lens, whereas the Thambar M 90 disappeared fast and the 28/5.6 still remains too, go figure. 

Leica can only produce so many products at a time. 

Anyhoo, enough about the limited edition stuff - I think the photos we make with our camera gear is way more interesting to discuss than Leica's company policies, politics and procedures.

Leica is still around making great cameras (or not so great when it comes to the M11...) and lenses. That's cool enough in itself to satisfy me, I am not going to buy everything in the catalog and I have no interest in buying a lens only in the hope to resale for more than what I paid for it later on.

The way I use my equipment, no one here would buy a thoroughly used up lens or camera from me that's for sure, scuffed up and well worn... I'd rather use my gear to make photos with than baby it for the next guy in line for a good deal, or to make a buck on the Leica collector and Leicafil market. 

What an excellent reply and summation Patrick, thank you for the well expressed grains of sense...........If people are prepared to pay x2 for essentially the same lens as the one released a year or so ago, ( or around 10x if you throw the excellent and close performing 35mm Voigtlander Nokton 1.4 VII into the mix * ), then that's their choice and Leica's clever gain. The Leica Store I deal quite a bit with had "reserved" one of the new Black copies for me, but I declined without even seeing it, why would I need to see/test it out?.......... I have the 35 'Lux 1.4 chrome re-issue and it's the same damn lens if you are a "user", it's just annoying to me that the lens wasn't offered in Black or Chrome to begin with, as it is now that decision smacks a bit of usury on Leica's part.........But more fool us to put up with such, as we do.

* If it was all along Leica's intention to re-issue an updated, Black, version of comparatively recent Chrome SR re-issue why didn't they redesign / re-address the sad lens-hood and filter usage with the chrome re-issue to function as well as the Voigtlander 35 Nokton 1.4's hood/filter set-up which is close to perfect? Hopefully the answer isn't that they didn't care about the function, more so the look of the lens so as to appeal to those who collect the gear rather than use it, who knows?

[patrickcolpron]

25 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

What an excellent summation [...] * If it was all along Leica's intention to re-issue an updated, Black, version of comparatively recent Chrome SR re-issue why didn't they redesign / re-address the sad lens-hood and filter usage with the chrome re-issue to function as well as the Voigtlander 35 Nokton 1.4's hood/filter set-up which is close to perfect? Hopefully the answer isn't that they didn't care about the function, more so the look of the lens so as to appeal to those who collect the gear rather than use it, who knows?

Thank you, what kills me is the 46mm filter thread, makes the lens look weird compared to the original. But my biggest pet peeve is the Ollux Hood not working with a filter as it does on the original, made a YouTube video comparing the original and re-issue 

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by patrickcolpron
Because because ...

[patrickcolpron]

59 minutes ago, fil-m said:

Patrick, do they mention which lens still in the catalogue are no longer produced?

They keep on referencing the Lux 24, Thambar... what's the point if these are no longer available new unless from old stock (if any)?

I have no idea, some lenses remain for reference sake and, I imagine they might be produced again if ever the demand is there down the road. I'll ask, it is a good question but I so seldom look at the lens offering online that, I never thought to ask.

Edited March 23, 2024 by patrickcolpron
*doh remain not rain...

[Eoin]

The rare collectors market I know nothing about except for some headline items I've seen over the years.

Buying this for €10K and hoping it appreciates .... you're a braver soul than me.

If you're happy that a black colour way and limited numbering is worth the €6k upsell, then that's all that really matters.

 

[Eoin]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Well the 15K chrome Noctilux 50/1.2 is selling anywhere between 50K and 100K… it was the appreciation poster boy

That's another headline in the collectors sphere along with the Titanium Noctilux .95 I suppose.
Does it take any better pictures compared to the standard re-issue, irrelevant for the collector I suspect, but very relevant for me.

Yes sure, there are some nice pieces of Leica kit I wouldn't mind owning for the aesthetics alone, but I own the standard version and it does exactly the same thing.
Photography has been a lifelong hobby for me, not a source of income or investment. 

[Warton]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Well the 15K chrome Noctilux 50/1.2 is selling anywhere between 50K and 100K… it was the “appreciation poster boy”…

I’m still happy shooting my black version of 50/1.2 for $6k. 

[Herr Barnack]

15 hours ago, gigithephotographer said:

There can be several kings. King of france, king of England , king of f2 bokeh, king of f1.4 bokeh. 
the kob can pretend to the kings title at f4, right below or right above. The SR is much more of a king at f2 than the kob is at f2. The SR at 1.4 is rather the Buffon of the king: sometimes pathetically laughable, sometimes brings a big smile on your face. 

The world needs a few good wars to sort all of this out - sort of a worldwide Super Bowl of the various Kings:

King of Europe.

King of Bokeh.

King of Bollocks.

 

[RexGig0]

The physical appearance of the silver-chromed-brass Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux 35 was a factor in my purchasing decision. I like silver-chromed lenses on my black-chromed Leica cameras, but, am glad for those who successfully pursue their black edition/variant. 

Ultimately, I simply wanted to add a “fast” 35mm lens with a vintage, non-ASPH optical rendering, and the official Leica USA price was within my budget, at a price nicely lower than the Summilux FLE. I am grateful that Leica chose to price the silver-chromed Re-Edition relatively reasonably.

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by RexGig0

[overexposed]

3 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

The world needs a few good wars to sort all of this out - sort of a worldwide Super Bowl of the various Kings:

King of Europe.

King of Bokeh.

King of Bollocks.

 

Be careful what you wish for, doesnt look good lately

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[patrickcolpron]

27 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Sorry, what is ill informed? I do not understand what you are trying to say?

You seem to imply Leica will make more of this batch because "Once you have this Leica terminology in your system, you understand their (intentional) modus operandi very clearly."

Leica limited batches are equal, some are just more equal than others. You will not see another one of these black Steel Rim outside the 200, they are in fact numbered.

I wouldn't even try to pretend I understand Leica's modus operandi, I have zero clue, no matter what people say or what I read online - all I know is that they are very good at selling different versions and variations of the same product.

Isn't it part of the appeal, and ... would it be as appealing knowing a limited batch to be in fact unlimited? 

I believe, and that's just my experienced opinion*, Leica knows their customers and target market very very well. 

But what do I know... I am just an Instagram Food Influencer  

*and you know what they say about opinions, they a little like a-holes, everyone has one  

Edited March 23, 2024 by patrickcolpron
P.S.: Maybe it's me who failed to understand what you were trying to say... according to my wife I'm an idiot *shrug*

[250swb]

5 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

Leica limited batches are equal, some are just more equal than others. You will not see another one of these black Steel Rim outside the 200, they are in fact numbered.

But then they discover another way to make a variant and bingo, you have another limited edition. Personally I think if Leica intend to make it so difficult for me to buy one (should the decadence of the whole concept appeal to me) they can stuff it where the sun doesn’t shine.