Trading SL2-S for SL3

[Dr. G]

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My SL3 will be delivered Monday or Tuesday of next week.  Can anyone speak to the real world low light performance of the two cameras side by side?  

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[Camaro5]

I haven't decided yet if I'll get one.  SL3 would be nice but my SL2-S is still fairly new and I would take a beating if I traded it in or sold it.  As a practical matter, I focus stack most of my landscapes or use the 96 mb multi-shot mode and can find absolutely nothing wrong with the images or the prints, so I wonder if it's worth it at this time.  

[PeterBoyadjian]

Yup! picked mine up today. 

Very impressed by the low light, IMO better than the Q3 for sure. 

Different generation of camera, feels very different - slower but refined. 

Menus while, clean are taking some time to get used to. 

I can drop box some DNG's if you would like. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I have SL2 and SL2S and will try to compare.  My hunch is that the SL2-S will compare well with the SL3 (as it has a later sensor) but the SL2 will fall behind a bit in dynamic range.

[keeping_a_balance]

7 hours ago, Dr. G said:

My SL3 will be delivered Monday or Tuesday of next week.  Can anyone speak to the real world low light performance of the two cameras side by side?  

In the same boat, my sl2s is just over a year old, and to take a beating that soon on what is a WONDERFUL camera is hard.

A few things that really entice me, the tilt screen I like to shoot low to the ground and guessing or getting on me knees is a bit too much and the AF hunting is a drag.  I find myself sometimes taking out my sony a7cii instead because of practicality in that it fixes those two problems.  Menu is not that bad either and weight is a definitive plus. But yeah you know what I am going to say, the Leica experience in the hands is different… yada yada yada….

I will have to be strong to not cave in to GAS and trade in my Q2 and SL2S to get close to a swap… which sounds brutal…

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, PeterBoyadjian said:

Yup! picked mine up today. 

Very impressed by the low light, IMO better than the Q3 for sure. 

Different generation of camera, feels very different - slower but refined. 

Menus while, clean are taking some time to get used to. 

I can drop box some DNG's if you would like. 

But how does it compare with the SL2-S side by side?

Edited March 9, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[hansvons]

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I won't get the SL3 for many reasons, including budget and overall happiness with what I've got, but I will be tempted when an SL3-S comes around. Here's why I won't get the SL3:

• For now, deducting from the M11, the SL2-S 24MP sensor's fidelity, especially at higher ISOs, e.g. ISO 6400, is still better.
• I don't need 60MP, and using half of the resolution won't improve fidelity. But I like the reasoning behind it for cases where smaller image files for quick turnarounds are essential.
• But I like fast read-out speeds for video, which the SL3 is particularly bad at.
• There are no advancements in the video settings. No serious filmmaker needs mirrorless-quality 8K.
• I'd expected the ludicrous IBIS of the S5II, which the SL3 doesn't seem to have.

The SL3 is marketed as a hybrid. But reading the specs, it's tilted strongly towards stills, as expected (which is totally fine with me). However, I need a proper video/stills hybrid. But there's a lot to like from what I read and which a hopefully upcoming SL3-S will benefit from:

• The SL3's design is still 100% Leica.
• I read that this also counts for the SL3's colour science.
• The tilted screen is fantastic.
• The more compact and lighter body is welcome.
• The extra wheel is welcome if adequately used in video mode. I don't need it for stills.
• The menu design does not seem to be worse.
• For those gimble shots, a great AF is beneficial.

I'd expect ProRes 4k internally in an SL3-S, bringing the camera into serious cinema territory. If the latter isn't materialising and ProRes keeps sticking with the ancient 1080p settings, I might rethink my video gear. 

[LocalHero1953]

At the moment I will not get the SL3, for similar reasoning to @hansvons, and in the expectation that there will be a SL3-S that is more practical for video as well as stills. I will still check out the SL3 for two issues for stills:

• AF: how well does it handle body/face/eye focus and tracking, especially when more than one person is in the frame. Does it avoid the nervous and uncontrolled jumping from one person to another in the SL2-S.
• Shutter sound: I am concerned at the report of a louder shutter. I will use electronic shutter (with all its problems, which would be worse in the SL3) when I need absolute silence, but I wouldn't want anything noisier than the SL2-S. I spend a lot of time moving quietly around stage performers, and a clacking shutter would distract them and embarrass me.

As a cheapskate videographer, most of whose output is just FHD, unlike Hansvons I like the idea of 8k as it offers opportunities for wide and close up (by cropping in post) from a single camera.

[PeterBoyadjian]

55 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

But how does it compare with the SL2-S side by side?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/7yey0sy80c13npwko31uh/h?rlkey=mt9e3adgbikmijo4mybc7x4tq&dl=0

Here is a dropbox link, 6400 and 12800 comparison. SL2S is on the left side. 

Raw exported from Lightroom, no adjustments. 

SL3 handles how light very well. Slightly worse than the SL2S, much better than the SL2

[hoolyproductions]

I'm also very interested in this, thanks PeterBoyadjian for the examples!

The difference seems quite small (but noticeable) in those shots. I'd like to see how they perform in dim light (where shadows need to be lifted quite a bit) - this tends to make more of a difference.

An example from the SL2-S last week ISO 25000, 1/60s (Lightroom AI noise has been applied). Exposure on the subjects has been lifted one stop and half a stop of shadow.

I decided to trade my SL2 in for an SL3 anyway (I got a pretty decent exchange price) so am now on a waiting list. Probably by the time I get the camera this will already be more clear. I imagine I'll be keeping the SL2-S but let's see.

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Edited March 9, 2024 by hoolyproductions

[tom0511]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

At the moment I will not get the SL3, for similar reasoning to @hansvons, and in the expectation that there will be a SL3-S that is more practical for video as well as stills. I will still check out the SL3 for two issues for stills:

• AF: how well does it handle body/face/eye focus and tracking, especially when more than one person is in the frame. Does it avoid the nervous and uncontrolled jumping from one person to another in the SL2-S.
• Shutter sound: I am concerned at the report of a louder shutter. I will use electronic shutter (with all its problems, which would be worse in the SL3) when I need absolute silence, but I wouldn't want anything noisier than the SL2-S. I spend a lot of time moving quietly around stage performers, and a clacking shutter would distract them and embarrass me.

As a cheapskate videographer, most of whose output is just FHD, unlike Hansvons I like the idea of 8k as it offers opportunities for wide and close up (by cropping in post) from a single camera.

If there would come a SL3-S, I wonder which resolution it would have? Any ideas?

[hansvons]

14 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

If there would come a SL3-S, I wonder which resolution it would have? Any ideas?

24MP amounts to 6K in video terms, which is the sweet spot for video (and arguably also for stills for now, depending on the application). 6K can be recorded as full-frame pixel-for-pixel video or downsampled with a quality boost to 4K regular video like UHD. Video quality gains tremendously from being processed as little as possible. Properly downsampled 4K video, compressed as ProRes 422 or, even better, ProRes444 or ProRes Raw, will show a quality that's not far from stills DNG files. 

I hope they won't fall prey to the idea of selling 8K video. That would be a major blunder.

Edited March 9, 2024 by hansvons

[LocalHero1953]

The BM CC 6k is 6k open gate from 24mp, and I find it very nice: a SL3-S that could do the same would draw me in!

I don’t know sensors well enough to suggest what they might pick. If they went for 8k open gate that would imply something around 43mp. But 6k would be more than enough for me in reality - especially if it came with a much faster read out speed. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[nicci78]

SL3 is only 4 fps with AF.... 3 sec startup time... turning it off required to press the ON/OFF button 5 sec...

not a fast camera at all. Petapixel is wondering why SL3 has CF Express and 8GB of RAM support for such poor performance. 

https://petapixel.com/2024/03/07/leica-sl3-initial-review-first-impressions/

They are wondering if a faster variant with fewer MP will be release soon aka SL3-S

Just compared to Nikon Z9/Z8 SL3 looks like a an old dinosaure at way higher price

Leica should have skipped the old 60MP sensor for an up to date stacked sensor 

Fun fact : Nikon has a better way to focus manual focus lenses with phase detect eye detect focusing confirmation 

 

Edited March 9, 2024 by nicci78

[Carrot]

I have an SL2-S, which I intend to keep, and now also have the SL3.  The photos below obviously aren't a test for low light and high ISO performance, but they do illustrate recovery of shadow detail.  Shot with APO M 35mm F2 with Highlight Weighted exposure setting, and with +47 shadow and black recovery in Capture One.

 

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[nicci78]

SL3 has massive rolling shutter issue, making it unsuitable for video or photos with electronic shutter.

SL3-S is coming for sure. 

[lx1713]

I like most of what I see in the SL3 but I don't really need 60mp. Most of what had been share are thoughtful views that I found myself agreeing. 

So I'm likely to sell off my SL, SL2S and Q2 to get a couple of SL3S but keep the SL2. It's not a difficult decision to say no to a great camera because what I have is already great and I don't mind waiting.  

[keeping_a_balance]

Had 5 minutes with the SL3 today, felt very nice in the hands paired with an APO lens, really like the new grip, feels much nicer to my hands.  

Not a good sign for my wallet.

 

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[SrMi]

4 hours ago, nicci78 said:

SL3 has massive rolling shutter issue, making it unsuitable for video or photos with electronic shutter.

SL3-S is coming for sure. 

A7rV, Q3, and M11 have the same rolling shutter, and their electronic shutter is very usable. Why would it be different with SL3?

Edited March 9, 2024 by SrMi

[keeping_a_balance]

Not sure how legit this video is, little technical details provided: